Question on expired terms of service

[rocksteady]

Once you are offered TOS after your contract has expired, how long do you have till you have to either sign or release.  I am under the impression that you are to be given 30 days to sign but you are also supposed to be offered TOS before you contract expires.

Thanks.

 

[DAA]

Once you are offered TOS after your contract has expired, how long do you have till you have to either sign or release.  I am under the impression that you are to be given 30 days to sign but you are also supposed to be offered TOS before you contract expires.
Thanks.

Like you said, you're suppose to be offered new TOS well before the current one expires but then again, it's not the first time such a thing has happened.

Deadlines are dependant upon what type of TOS is being offered but I would have to look it up.

Off the top of my head, I believe that MILPERSCOM 05/05 has all the info that you are looking for.

 

[rocksteady]

Like you said, you're suppose to be offered new TOS well before the current one expires but then again, it's not the first time such a thing has happened.

Deadlines are dependant upon what type of TOS is being offered.

It would be the 2nd contract.

 

[rocksteady]

Thx.

 

[DAA]

It would be the 2nd contract.

In which case, new TOS are normally offered around 18 months prior to expiry.  So if you did not receive an offer and you did not question why an offer was not being made (not that you should need to), then they will want you to sign that TOS right away and it will be "back dated".

The last time I saw something like this and the unit sought guidance from DGMC and if the member refused the offer, release was done within 30-days.

 

[rocksteady]

Does anyone know how to access MILPERSCOM 20/05?

Thx.

 

[rocksteady]

In which case, new TOS are normally offered around 18 months prior to expiry.  So if you did not receive an offer and you did not question why an offer was not being made (not that you should need to), then they will want you to sign that TOS right away and it will be "back dated".

The last time I saw something like this and the unit sought guidance from DGMC and if the member refused the offer, release was done within 30-days.

Sorry I should clarify.  The first contract is expired.  What if they offer the 2nd contract now?  Does the person still get the 30 days to make a decision?

 

[DAA]

Sorry I should clarify.  The first contract is expired.  What if they offer the 2nd contract now?  Does the person still get the 30 days to make a decision?

Because of the situation, whatever it may be, they are going to want you to sign that ASAP.  It all depends on how the subject came up at unit level.  Did you initiate a query on it or did someone in your current Unit pick up on it or did DGMC contact your current unit to find out what is going on.

The ball is pretty much in your court.

 

[rocksteady]

This is what I found in

ADM (HR-MIL) INSTRUCTION 05/05

Administrative Process

55. To process a TOS offer, the URS shall prepare the form at Annex C and forward it to the members’ Commanding Officer for the following action:

-COs shall sign Part II and members shall be notified of the re-engagement offer;
-when notified of the re-engagement offer, members have 30 days to indicate acceptance or refusal of the offered TOS in Part III in the presence of a commissioned officer;
-the form shall then be reviewed by the URS to ensure that all entries are accurate and complete. Part IV will be completed and the data will be entered into the Human Resource Management System (HRMS).

But it doesn't say if the TOS is expired so I would imagine the person would have the 30 days still to decide.

 

[DAA]

But it doesn't say if the TOS is expired so I would imagine the person would have the 30 days still to decide.

You found it!  Good for you!  Exactly, you will still have the 30 days and then due to your circumstances and if you choose to decline further TOS, they will consult DGMC, get chastised in the process and then DGMC will tell them how to proceed.

Good luck!

 

[DAA]

Let me add one more point to all of this, based on my own personal experience, I feel it is prudent.

If you were under any form of "Remedial Measure", you would have been advised long ago that an offer was not forthcoming and would have been released at the end of your original TOS.

Chances are, you were not offered new TOS due to an administrative oversight, nothing more!  It does happen from time to time!

Don't take it personally, it's usually not a reflection on your performance and or whether or not the CF wants you around,. If it were, we would be back at the "Remedial Measures" issue and this would never have happened.

Good luck and I hope everything works out for you, which ever decision you make!

 

[Sunnyns]

Our OR kept all that info in Excel and we were expected to keep an eye on it every month.  Every OR has their way of doing things. I would talk to your clerk.  I am very big on keeping an eye on everything that involves your career.  Keep a sharp eye on your pay statements and keep a copy of your pers file at home.  I am not in anyway saying the clerk has no responsibility, I am saying try to keep on top of the things you do know.  Not everyone knows how pay and files are handled but do the best you can.

I was trying to help my son without getting involved (he does have to learn to do things) but,  he was entitled to an LTA and his clerk kept saying no he was not.  Turns out..... yes he was.  He's 18 and not going to say boo to a MCpl who is telling him no you can't have this, when it was in his right to have the LTA.  I don't remember why they first said no.

Same with my husband, he has a copy of his pers file.

 

[jeffb]

I would talk to your clerk.

Even better, talk to your chain of command. While clerks process your TOS renewals, it is a chain of command responsibility to ensure that TOS renewals are happening in a timely fashion and that your admin is squared away.

 

[Shamrock]

Even better, talk to your chain of command. While clerks process your TOS renewals, it is a chain of command responsibility to ensure that TOS renewals are happening in a timely fashion and that your admin is squared away.

You can't possibly be espousing command driven administration over administration driven command, can you?  What's next, expecting leaders to know their troops and promote their welfare?

 

[jeffb]

You can't possibly be espousing command driven administration over administration driven command, can you?  What's next, expecting leaders to know their troops and promote their welfare?

I would never suggest such a thing. A leaders' job is it sit in their lofty tower complaining about the morale of the troops and how they are unable to properly adhere to the CF Writing Guide.  :sarcasm:

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I'll add alittle.

IAW 05/05, TOS offers are supposed to be made 12 months before your current TOS expires.  Like all admin, sometimes it falls thru the cracks.

I went thru something similar; what will likely happen is your unit will start the process, your BOR likely has a TOS cell that will liase with D MIL C 4 TOS to generate your offer, with a situation like yours going to priority over other TOS reviews/offers.  Mine was for different reasons but still processed in a quick timeframe.

You're "need to do" should be "inform CofC TOS has expired".  The rest 'should' be unit-BOR-D MIL C 4 TOS and back.

Lastly, check 05/05 (one of the Annex's, can't remember which) for your MOSIDs TOS Sequence.  Depending on a few things, the basic idea is you should be offered either a CE or your IE25 and you get to pick which one.  If you know what you are looking for, you might let your CofC know "I'd like to sign a IE25" etc.

I'm not sure but I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't really want to go the 30 days to sign if its already expired.  You shouldn't be surprised on what you're being offered (TOS sequence stuff in 05/05, and there is a 2009 CANFORGEN that also pertains...034/09?  somewhere around there.  Basically details the 'mbr to be offered choice of IE25-CE' stuff).

Hope that helps some. 

 

[Cansky]

EIS is correct but those pers who have completed 20 or 25 year IE (initial engagement) and have been offered a CE (continuing engagement) or VIE (variable engagement) it works slightly different. If you are in this stream (as I was 18 months ago) then you have to write a memo thru your chain of command revues ting a further TOS.  In this TOS stream they will not offer you an new terms of service unless specifically requested.  This direction comes straight from the TOS folks in Ottawa.  I started asking about my TOS at the 24 month mark and with less than a year left on my TOS did I finally get answer, of course they screwed it up twice and with only 2 months left on my contract did it finally get complete properly.  Ensure you read the contract completely to ensure it is correct with type of contract requested and completion date or it could be null and void

 

[RADOPSIGOPACCISOP]

Bob Slydell: Milton Waddams.

Dom Portwood: Who's he?

Bob Porter: You know, squirrely looking guy, mumbles a lot.

Dom Portwood: Oh, yeah.

Bob Slydell: Yeah, we can't actually find a record of him being a current employee here.

Bob Porter: I looked into it more deeply and I found that apparently what happened is that he was laid off five years ago and no one ever told him about it; but through some kind of glitch in the payroll department, he still gets a paycheck.

Bob Slydell: So we just went ahead and fixed the glitch.

Bill Lumbergh: Great.

Dom Portwood: So, uh, Milton has been let go?

Bob Slydell: Well, just a second there, professor. We, uh, we fixed the *glitch*. So he won't be receiving a paycheck anymore, so it'll just work itself out naturally.

Bob Porter: We always like to avoid confrontation, whenever possible. Problem is solved from your end.