Question for those who've seen action.

[benl]

Hey what's up boys.  First of all kudos, hats off and all of that...honestly I believ you guys are men among men.  I myself will be joining the ranks of the Canadian Infantry tomorrow morning officially and starting my basic training May 7, shooting for a tour in A-stan in mid  to late '08 I hope.
Anyway my question goes like this. I'm sure it's a lot easier to think your prepared to act once bullets are being fired at you than it is to actually act once your under the gun.  Maybe this is just a little bout of cold feet goin in but the last thing I would ever wanna do is freeze in a combat situation and jeopardize my buddies...so to get to the point of it all, just wondering how many if any of you boys had anxiety goin out on your first tour...like how were the nerves? or was training good enough that fear is not so much as a faint echo?  Also if I'm just being a pansy about this please feel free to tell me to shut up, man up and not worry cause that might be what I need to hear.
Feel free to message me if anyone has any tips/advice
Finally I apologize if this has wasted anybodies time reading through it.
pizzeace gentz

 

[mckee19]

i have never been to A'stan but im going to have to say if you didnt have some what of a fear your first time you have balls of steel my friend.

 

[benl]

lmao...duely noted my man.

 

[mckee19]

one thing i found at my unit, is that people who have gone are very willing to speak to you about it, seeing your new into the military i wouldn't be asking anyone while your on BMQ and what not but im in the reserves so its a bit different, i am also looking to get to A'stan in late 2008 or early 2009 and my Lt. answered all my questions and some fears i have of going

 

[GAP]

It is normal to be apprehensive, and I wouldn't worry overmuch about it.

During your time spent with your unit and eventually the workup  to go over, just about every question you have you could possibly have will be answered. Then you get to spend all  your time wondering why what they said didn't happen to you.....have fun, everybody goes through it.

 

[xo31@711ret]

Not to worry Dude, you'll have great (and pulenty)  training. As for nerves...IMHO, I'd rather have a fire partner with some mild apprehension (makes you sharp), than some gung-ho kunga-din type.

 

[Edgar S.]

I've never been to the Ghan, but I've trained as an infanteer with the Primary reserve and I've had bullets kick up dirt just a few feet in front of my while my section was shifting fire for me to run up and frag a trench. I can tell you that regardless of the danger that most people would associate with running into oncoming fire, when you've been trained properly many actions you do are nearly instinctive.

I remember after QL3, full time in the summer there were incidences where I'd hear an order and quite naturally carry out the command while my mind could carry on thinking about whatever it is I was musing on at the time. This is a way of illustrating that you become so accustomed to doing certain things that your higher brain functions aren't impaired when doing them, it's nearly instinctive.

I'm sure that as soon as a bullet wizzes past your head in real life, you may get scared shitless, but soon training will kick in and you'll yell contact and start detailing distance and direction of enemy fire so that your section can return fire. You'll probably be thinking "Oh crap o crap o crap" in your head while saying "Three secition! Four o'clock from red building, second floor Distance two hundred." Then hearing your section commander yell "Rapid fire!" then the beautiful "Cling, Cling" of your bolt slamming the buffer spring to the back of the stock followed by an empty casing ricocheting off the casing deflector and spinning out into the dusty air.

 

[benl]

Wow!!!  Dude honestly that was the best response I could have possibly hoped for...Not only has my apprehension been quelled, but your description of battle/calling out distance etc actually makes my boy parts tingle with delight!!(hehe ya I"m a nerd)  I guess it is natural to be a little "concerned" about the whole deal but I'm sure after training the vital actions will become insinctual like you said.
Anyway thanks to everyone who replied to my post, honestly they were all very helpful.
I love these forums  ;D

 

[RHFC_piper]

Hey preparation H,  By the time you deploy, you will have spent quite a while (at least 6 months) with the guys you will be fighting beside.  You will have gone through many live and blank fire exercises, and you will form a bond and brotherhood with your section so strong that you won't (or at least shouldn't have to) question their abilities once you hit the 2 way range.

I will tell you this from experience; You will be afraid at some point when you are in battle, thats normal.  But your training and insticts will guide you. 
In Panjwayi, everyone I was around fought, I saw no one cower.  Bullets flew past and few of us realized it until after the fight.  When we withdrew, and were no longer in the fight, and the adrenaline dropped, then the fear kicked in...

The sad truth is, after your first few TICs, you'll be fairly used to the sound of 'angry bees' buzzing around your head.  Just keep your head in the game and focus on what you've been taught, and your instincts.

 

[TheHead]

    A Sgt told me before heading over that combat brings a solider down to his lowest level of training, I found that quite true.    In my own personal experience my nerves held out fine, I looked to my fire-team partner and friends during the fights for strength.  I would see them calm, cool and collective, shouting the occasional funny one liner at the enemy or in the Lav officers case "get down Sir or you're gonna get killed".  After the fact though I found my nerves to be a little on edge.  Para flares that make the "WHOOSH" sound still scare the hell out of me because it sounds like a RPG. My nerves till this day are still not what they were before the tour.       

    I remember one fight in particular, August 3rd.  We were driving back to the PRT in Khandahar city and was about 100m from the front gate when the turbo in our LAV exploded, it sounded like we got hit by a RPG.  I have never seen two grown man throw themselves down into the LAV 3 turret as fast and my crew commander and self did.   


    The only advice I have for you at this point in your career is don't dwell on this.  You're not even through BMQ, SQ, BIQ, work up yet. 


  Also in regards to Edgar.S post yes you will become eventually accustomed to life fire attacks where people are shooting next to you hell it's training and you should have confidence in the soldiers you are training with.  BUT from my own experience I really hope no one ever gets accustomed to getting shot at, it's two entirely different feelings.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Ladies and Gentlemen unless it applies to you this was directed to personnel that have seen action and unless you have actually experienced it then you have no business commenting in this thread. Stay in your lanes!

Army.Ca Staff

 

[hat]

Training will see you through.  IMHO, worrying about how you will perform happens (a little) to almost everyone, but in the end turns out to be a waist of time.  Our training is good and it keeps getting better.  Follow it and you will do just fine.  You may have some pre-combat jitters.  That's OK.  Once an Op has started, you will normally be too busy to devote time to worrying about what may or may not happen.  Once the bullets start flying you will be absolutely preoccupied doing things.  If you find yourself stressed, take some breaths and calm down.  The worst that can happen is you will die, and that will happen to all of us at some point - whether it's in battle or quietly in our sleep. 

As noted, you will have lots of time between now and when you will potentially deploy to learn all the lessons you need.  My biggest advice is accept the fact (before you are actually in combat and under stress) that you or others around you may die and that you may have to kill someone.  Accepting these things will help you avoid distraction at the moment of truth and help inoculate you, psychologically, against traumatic events.

My $0.02

 

[benl]

Thanks again everyone!  I'm glad I got the feedback from experienced individuals as it has definately served to ease my initial tensions...However I'm kinda sorry that I posted and took up a topic space.
At the risk of straying off topic here...I've fought in some "sanctioned" (very loosely for some of them) full contact/boxing fights...and every time before I stepped into the ring and even the day before/of I always had a nervous apprehension, but was able to use it to be sharp and not get too relaxed.  It sounds that live fire combat carries with it much of the same stress of a fist fight, only amplified to it's highest degree (which must be exhilerating as hell once it's over)  And like those fights if you're training is good enough and you stick to the gameplan you WILL win!!
I have perused this board for a few weeks now, and everytime training is mentioned no one has anything bad to say.  Some members have offered their opinions on improvements (which I find encouraging because it's feedback from battle tested soldiers for the most part, and hopefully will be taken into account in future training OPs) but never anything negative.
So in conclusion to my long winded praise of the CF land forces and it's members, and my self rationalization I believe that it boils down to the old maxim "fight the way you train!!" and from what I hear is we train well!
Thanks again everyone sorry for "blogging"
I'm done I swear  :-X

 

[George Wallace]

Thanks again everyone!  I'm glad I got the feedback from experienced individuals as it has definately served to ease my initial tensions...However I'm kinda sorry that I posted and took up a topic space.

A good discussion/topic is never a waste of space.

At the risk of straying off topic here...I've fought in some "sanctioned" (very loosely for some of them) full contact/boxing fights...and every time before I stepped into the ring and even the day before/of I always had a nervous apprehension, but was able to use it to be sharp and not get too relaxed. 

Just to confirm your thoughts there, in my younger days, when I fought in Judo tournaments, I found that I had more problems with my nerves after a fight than before.  Before I would be on edge with anticipation, but afterwards I would have the shakes as I came down.

 

[Jammer]

If it wasn't for the plates in my frag vest, my heart would have jumped out of my chest the day we headed to the staging leaguer the day before Medusa started...kind of a rush though.

 

[RHFC_piper]

If it wasn't for the plates in my frag vest, my heart would have jumped out of my chest the day we headed to the staging leaguer the day before Medusa started...kind of a rush though.

This just goes to show that it is different for everyone;  When my platoon set up in the leaguer before Op. Medusa, I felt kinda bored... I wasn't excited at all until we got into our firing position at M'sum Ghar (sp?)... but that excitement cooled off as we sat there waiting, but it came back when we mounted up to go in.

The only time I can recall being 'freaked out' was when I heard a friend of mine, from my home unit, was wounded and possibly missing or dead... that coupled with the loss of our platoon WO, as well as the others, made it very stressful when we were parked in the Wadi after withdrawing from battle.  We were also still taking fire while we were trying to resupply and conduct cas evac, and our support (Air and Arty) were firing in pretty close; I was almost got hit with a rather large chunk of metal from Airburts arty... it hit about 6 inches beside my leg.

Everyone reacts differently, but like I said before; If you rely on your training and instincts, and concentrate on the task / job, you'll find that everything will be over before you have time to 'freak out' about it.  But at some point, it will hit you.

 

[mover1]

Staying Well withing my lanes.


Is anyone writing this down and going to publish it?!?!
This is compelling stuff reminicent of Mark Bakers novel NAM.
First hand experiences fresh in the minds of the individuals. Not glossed over by nostalgia or hindsight.
Who is a publishing Guru around these parts or should I start doing it myself?

Rich

 

[deedster]

Staying Well withing my lanes.


Is anyone writing this down and going to publish it?!?!
This is compelling stuff reminicent of Mark Bakers novel NAM.
First hand experiences fresh in the minds of the individuals. Not glossed over by nostalgia or hindsight.
Who is a publishing Guru around these parts or should I start doing it myself?

Rich

I'm definitely out of my lane, but I believe someone should definitely capture the comments from this thread...amazing.  And a HUGE civilian thank you for what you soldiers did and/or are doing for our country 

 

[medaid]

Soory not in my lanes either, but i have to point out to PrepH, that the chances of him getting a tour in Mid 08 to late 08 is kind of slim. Considering, he's going to need this summer, (if he gets in now) to do his BMQ, SQ and the next summer to do his 3s. He'll be aiming for one in late 09 by the looks of it. Cheers, and good luck though!

 

[RHFC_piper]

Soory not in my lanes either, but i have to point out to PrepH, that the chances of him getting a tour in Mid 08 to late 08 is kind of slim. Considering, he's going to need this summer, (if he gets in now) to do his BMQ, SQ and the next summer to do his 3s. He'll be aiming for one in late 09 by the looks of it. Cheers, and good luck though!

True. But if this information is of value to any members deploying in '08 than I don't see this as a wasted thread.