PWT 3 Help

[rmc_wannabe]

Hey all, I did a search and couldn't find anything of reference.

I currently trying to pass my PWT 3 and am having a hard time of it. And since insanity is doing the same thing over again and expecting different results, here I am.

I'm pretty good at the 300 metre prone and run up... but things start to fall apart from there. the 200 kneeling I butcher and the 100 prone I can't hit a fig 12. to save my life. After that its all gravy.

Anyone here have any advice on how I can improve on my weaker areas and get this thing over and done with?

 

[davidk]

First thing's first - know and apply your marksmanship principles. Failure to correctly apply them will result in a poor score. Try to ensure that your hold on the weapon is appropriately firm, so it's not shaking everywhere. Some people I know will wrap the sling around their elbow or tuck the butt of the rifle into their tac vest. Also, if your cardio  endurance is poor or you're running the 100m too fast, your heart will be racing, and the weapon will be jumping up and down while you try to concentrate and shoot straight.

 

[Jarnhamar]

One of the biggest mistakes is trying to run from the 400 --> 300,  300 --> 200 ect.. as fast as you can. By the time you get there you're sucking air and your shots go all over the place.
Slow down. You can move at a slow trot and still make it there with plenty of time to shoot.

At the 100 try putting your magazine into the ground for support.
Some people will say they know a guy who knows a guy who swears that putting the magazine int he ground will cause stoppages etc..
Others say it won't matter a schmick.  I'm in the later camp. When I shoot I put my mag on the ground.  At 100 meters you should shoot fine no matter how bad you're out of breath.

Some people have a problem in the kneeling holding their point of aim and need to fight their body and breathing.
I found with some shooters (myself included at times) that not fighting it helps. Your point of aim is going up and down by a few feet-let it. As your point of aim comes across the center of mass fire off a round. Just hold your aim for a fraction of a second, all comes down to timing.  I find it works, try it out.

 

[Redeye]

Don't try to run too fast during the run down, you'll get your heart rate up way too high to be able to stabilize the rifle on the move.  45 seconds is a long time, you can really basically shuffle downrange and get there with time to set up.  Don't forget to set up a good position and hold too - a lot of people seem to rush positioning and therefore pull all their shots.  When you get onto the mound take three or four good deep breaths to oxygenate your blood, this will help your heart rate fall and tighten up your shot placement.

 

[Osotogari]

First things first - KEEP THE WEAPON OFF THE GROUND.  Very counterproductive use the magazine as an improvised bipod.  Don't do it, and feel free to slap anyone who you see doing it or suggests doing it.     

What everyone forgets is that you can get 15 easy points on PWT 3 with the first two static serials at the 300m point.  These can be practiced ad nauseum in the SAT.  With a pass of 29, you're over half way there and you haven't even started running yet.

Don't forget to change your sights from 300m to 200m at the appropriate time.  Use the few seconds after the targets drop at the 300m to do this.

Everything 100m and forward is a gimme, and some of that can be practiced in the SAT. 

So, if you get the easy points as I've described and miss everything running from 400m to 200m you should still pass. 

Remember, SAT time is golden.  If it's offered, take it.  If it's not offered, find out why.

AND FOR F**K'S SAKE KEEP THE MAGAZINE OFF THE GROUND

 

[Jarnhamar]

AND FOR F**K'S SAKE KEEP THE MAGAZINE OFF THE GROUND

Why?
What's your reason for this?
Cause the weapon to jam? Nope.

 

[Armymedic]

Yes...why?

I believe the saying goes: If your not cheating, you aren't trying hard enough.

 

[Jarnhamar]

RMC wannabe, don't listen to  St Michaels MT, cheating is bad.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

RMC wannabe, don't listen to  St Michaels MT, cheating is bad.

Thanks Flawed Design! "Knowledge is power, and knowing is half the battle!" *cue G.I. Joe theme*  ;D

 

[George Wallace]

First things first - KEEP THE WEAPON OFF THE GROUND.  ..............
...............
...............
...............

AND FOR F**K'S SAKE KEEP THE MAGAZINE OFF THE GROUND

???

Keep you muzzle out of the dirt.

Ensure your mag is properly seated.

Proper breathing and control.

Maintain sight picture.

Follow through.

Correct range settings.

Lots of good pointers.  Resting the mag on the ground to get a more stable position has been a point that many have converted to now a days, as opposed to the "Old Wives Tale" of it being a bad thing.  Everyone has little 'tricks' that they use to improve their shooting.  What works for one, doesn't necessarily work for another. 

By the way; someone with short arms has no choice but to rest the mag on the ground.  In fact someone with a really short arm length may even have to dig a little hole in order to get comfy.

Am I a SME?  No.  I'm Armoured.  We play with bigger 'guns'.  ;D    I just listen to the debates between SME's and Non-SME's. 

 

[armyvern]

Why?
What's your reason for this?
Cause the weapon to jam? Nope.

I'm with you. Mag ON the ground -- it hasn't caused a jam for me yet.

RMC_Wannabee

Relax on the run down. Breathe in through the mouth, nice deep breaths the whole way down ...

45 seconds IS a lot of time. Fuck, I had the pleasure of being on target one doing the PWT 3 a couple of weeks ago -- you know, that target where all the 4 inch deep footprints are imbedded into the dried earth because all the TOETs happen behind the mounds at target 1? I wiped out on the run from 300m down to 200m, picked my ass up and got myself there - got my shots fired - then still had a few seconds to spare before picking my ass up again to run down to 100m.

Also, remember that when you have to switch out your mags after firing 10 rounds ... count 9 rounds, switch the mag, continue firing. DO NOT fire the full 10 rounds and thus empty your mag and have to waste precious seconds going through the empty mag scenario. It's better to use those seconds getting yourself into a somewhat stable position.

And, for crying out loud ... check your sight to make sure it's very tightly secured before you begin the run down because it seems to be a little more accurate than eyesight only (go figure eh?) ... not doing so caused a couple of failures on my relay.  :

 

[davidk]

Mag on the ground does cause stoppages - on the SAT machine. >

 

[MJP]

Good Points.....The only thing I really have to add is see if you can get one of the ARSO's (or if you can a dedicated coach) to run with ya.  I do it all the time with weakers shoters to help them along the process.  Standing up I usually have the luxury of seeing rough impact based on splash on the butts.  

Also, remember that when you have to switch out your mags after firing 10 rounds ... count 9 rounds, switch the mag, continue firing. DO NOT fire the full 10 rounds and thus empty your mag and have to waste precious seconds going through the empty mag scenario. It's better to use those seconds getting yourself into a somewhat stable position.

IIRC the Mag change on the PWT 3 comes after the 200 right before you run down to the 100 but after you finish the serial.  If that is the case there is no need to not fire one round.  Fire your rounds as usual at the 200 and change mags as soon as you are finished before running to the 100.

 

[armyvern]

Mag on the ground does cause stoppages - on the SAT machine. >

>

It (mag on the ground) also tends to alleviate some of the issues with the other mags digging into this chickie-poo's non-existant chest while in the prone -- go figure.

Mag on the ground is especially nice should one have sandbags ... two points of stability vice one. Forearm on the bag, ground to the mag. It's always worked for me ... and with the 67mm grouping I got last time --- I ain't about to change the way I fire anytime soon.  

 

[armyvern]

Good Points.....The only thing I really have to add is see if you can get one of the ARSO's (or if you can a dedicated coach) to run with ya.  I do it all the time with weakers shoters to help them along the process.  Standing up I usually have the luxury of seeing rough impact based on splash on the butts.  

IIRC the Mag change on the PWT 3 comes after the 200 right before you run down to the 100 but after you finish the serial.  If that is the case there is no need to not fire one round.  Fire your rounds as usual at the 200 and change mags as soon as you are finished before running to the 100.

During the serial. 25 shots. 10 round mag and a 15 round mag. Change on the fly after the first 9. That's how it's happening around here anyway ...

 

[MJP]

Could be, I haven't ran a PWT 3 in a few months.  I'll take a look when I'm out with the PLQ course next week.

 

[davidk]

>

It (mag on the ground) also tends to alleviate some of the issues with the other mags digging into this chickie-poo's non-existant chest while in the prone -- go figure.

Mag on the ground is especially nice should one have sandbags ... two points of stability vice one. Forearm on the bag, ground to the mag. It's always worked for me ... and with the 67mm grouping I got last time --- I ain't about to change the way I fire anytime soon. 

I get the same thing - except the non-existant chest problem isn't much of a problem for me. I'm a small guy to begin with, so I don't have long arms. While I can still get a grouping of under 100mm with the mag off the ground, when I lower it down, my results improve dramatically.

I wouldn't go as far as to call myself an SME since I've only got a handful of years in, but some of the best shots I've worked with have let it be known that they see no problem with it.

 

[NL_engineer]

I'm with you. Mag ON the ground -- it hasn't caused a jam for me yet.

same for me.

I think the poster who posted "don't put the mag on the ground" has only shot on the SAT range recently  :

 

[armyvern]

Could be, I haven't ran a PWT 3 in a few months.  I'll take a look when I'm out with the PLQ course next week.

Ohhh!! Let us know how many sights get dropped.  >

 

[Jarnhamar]

Having a shooting coach run down with you helps a lot.
Lots of new shooters get psyched out over having to count how many to fire at each stop and what position they need to adopt.
Next pwt3 ask a shooting coach to run down with you and at each stage tell you what position to adopt and how many rounds to fire.  Nothing wrong with being nervous. After a while you'll get better and won't need it.

Don't race. The shooting coaches have a good idea how fast you need to run, run along side them or just infront.
Put your mag in the ground.  When we used to use plastic magazines and with those I might not have put them in the ground. We use metal mags now so it's not going to damage them, nor will it jam.
Instead of holding the fore stock keep your non-trigger hand wrapped around the magazine housing or where the magazine housing connects to the barrel (the little slip ring).
If I'm really out of breath (in the prone) I'll put the mag in the ground and with my non trigger hand (ie left if you shoot right handed) I'll hold on to the bottom of the butt stock and use my left hand to raise lower and steady my aim.
Try different positions in the kneeling. Ask one of the shooting coaches for ideas on the kneeling they might give you an idea on something that works for you.