Posting Policy-Out of Canada (OUTCAN) [MERGED]

[PPCLI Guy]

Question for anyone recently posted back to Canada: 

I'm getting conflicting info about the Canada customs Personal Effects Accounting Document that you're supposed to have with your inventory.  How many copies of that form (and the inventory) are we supposed to fill out, and who do we give it to?  The moving company overseas told me they only deal with it up to the first port (Vancouver) but I'll be going to Comox, so who takes over from there?

So far, the process for moving back has been fairly straightforward except for this part.

Thanks!

You may well need one at your personal point of entry, and one again when your stuff clears bond - it has however been almost 5 years since I did an OUTCAN to INCAN posting.  I would recommend at least three copies, as well as book that has masters of everything in it that never leaves your sight!

 

[Scoobs]

NECROTHREAD ALERT:

Was that in the 1940s before the Germans occupied Vichy France? 

Anyway, I'm posted to the DC area, pending a successful screening.  Not looking for info on the process, but for anyone who's been posted there, is there anything I ought to know about the greater DC area?  (Other than to not go over Congress in a hot air balloon: I may never come down!) 

I'm currently posted OUTCAN to an area near the NYC area, but all of us down here use Canadian Defence Liaison Staff Washginton, CDLS(W), as our OR.  If you already have a point of contact at the Embassy in Washington (which is where CDLS(W) is), ask them as they have lots of info for you.  What I have heard is that most pers live outside of the city itself and in the surrounding areas.  If living outside of the city, I've heard that you should expect anywhere from a 30 to 45 min commute, but the staff at CDLS(W) will be able to tell you. 

My wife and I were just in the DC area approx 3 wks ago and it is very beautiful, plus lots of things to see.  The unique thing about the greater DC area is that a bunch of States converge there.  You should enjoy your posting.  I generally find that the further south you go away from NYC, the more friendly the people are, so hopefully that is the case for you and your family (if this applies).  Besides that, I can't really tell you much about the DC area.

 

[garb811]

Question for anyone recently posted back to Canada: 

I'm getting conflicting info about the Canada customs Personal Effects Accounting Document that you're supposed to have with your inventory.  How many copies of that form (and the inventory) are we supposed to fill out, and who do we give it to?  The moving company overseas told me they only deal with it up to the first port (Vancouver) but I'll be going to Comox, so who takes over from there?

So far, the process for moving back has been fairly straightforward except for this part.

Thanks!

I had to give one copy of my inventory to the movers for each shipment (Air and Sea) so it could clear the host country customs.  When I landed in Canada, I had to have 1 copy of both shipments at my first point of entry.  I then had to have a copy for each shipment when it was clearing customs on its arrival to Canada.

You're lucky Comox has an Inland Office.  When I got back, my posting location didn't and I had to travel back and forth three times to get everything cleared as my car arrived seperate from my sea shipment even though it left at the same time as my sea shipment with the same moving company.  :dunno:

In addition to your master binder, I would suggest posting a copy of your inventory to Google Drive or something, just as a just in case just in case...

 

[RubberTree]

To any of those posted OUTCAN to the US (Scoobs, I'm looking at you here...) what did you do with your vehicle? Apparently, because I don't have an integrated tire pressure monitoring system on my car I don't "conform" to US standards and can't import the car. However, the CBP website does say "Those belonging to members of foreign armed forces, foreign diplomatic personnel, or other individuals who come within the class of persons for whom free entry has been authorized by the Department of State in accordance with international law." are exempt from safety and emissions standards.
Has anybody used this? Or, how have you gotten around it?
Thanks!
RT

 

[little jim]

To any of those posted OUTCAN to the US (Scoobs, I'm looking at you here...) what did you do with your vehicle? Apparently, because I don't have an integrated tire pressure monitoring system on my car I don't "conform" to US standards and can't import the car. However, the CBP website does say "Those belonging to members of foreign armed forces, foreign diplomatic personnel, or other individuals who come within the class of persons for whom free entry has been authorized by the Department of State in accordance with international law." are exempt from safety and emissions standards.
Has anybody used this? Or, how have you gotten around it?
Thanks!
RT

I had no issues importing my truck, but it was greater than 25 years old....

The 2007 Volvo we drove down was another issue.  Bringing it into the USA was relatively easy with the boarder guys happy with form HS-7 box 12 which is the 'I am a member of a foreign military posted to the USA and will be bringing the car back with me out of the country when I leave.'  Also on the EPA form 3520-1 I think it was Box N for foreign military/diplomat.

Once in state I operated my vehicle under the state's "Out of State Military" rules - as long as I had valid insurance and registration I didnt need to get a state driver's licence so I had my Canadian one throughout with Canadian plates.

My wife was forced to go through and get a local drivers licence as she wasn’t military.

Bottom line is you have to check what state you are posted to; you might be able to use the out of state military clause and keep your Canadian plates and insurance.

Note that you need to get your home province and insurance company have to agree to this and I recommend get it in writing; I had to prove a likelihood of returning to that province which also had a second order effect of allowing me to claim the maintenance of social ties to that province when it came time for my income tax return.  The insurance company I had at the time likened my problem to the snow birds who spend most of their time in Florida or Arizona; but it took some time and considerable email traffic to get me there.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

To any of those posted OUTCAN to the US (Scoobs, I'm looking at you here...) what did you do with your vehicle? Apparently, because I don't have an integrated tire pressure monitoring system on my car I don't "conform" to US standards and can't import the car. However, the CBP website does say "Those belonging to members of foreign armed forces, foreign diplomatic personnel, or other individuals who come within the class of persons for whom free entry has been authorized by the Department of State in accordance with international law." are exempt from safety and emissions standards.
Has anybody used this? Or, how have you gotten around it?
Thanks!
RT

That clause is for State accredited personnel - so basically Embassy staff.  As always, us non-Embassy pers have to look after ourselves.  I kept my AB plates (even renewed them by having a 12 month mail forwarding in place) with insurance here in the States.  My licence expires in August, and so I will have to fly to AB to get it renewed.

 

[Dirt Digger]

I'm in the process of returning to Canada after four years OUTCAN.  The vehicle issue has been a huge hassle, and is actually getting worse.

First, to import a Cdn vehicle into the US you'll need a compliance letter, which you can get from your vehicle manufacturer.  You can do a temporary import - just fill out the paperwork - but different states have different rules regarding plating your vehicle or drivers licenses.  I'm in Maryland, so we had to get Maryland title on the car, along with the plates and Maryland ID.  Also, check with your manufacturer regarding warranty coverage.

One really stupid piece of advice:  When you cross the border, have the US customs people stamp every page of your car's import documents.  They'll look at you funny.  Stamp every page - even if there isn't a place to stamp.  We had the documents "properly" stamped on the last page and had to drive to the "nearest" customs branch at the Baltimore airport to get it "fixed."  The Maryland DMV claimed that we could have written anything we wanted to on the unstamped pages.

Returning to Canada has seen a huge change.  Pretty much all vehicles have to be exported through US customs.  You used to be able to do all of the paperwork by hand, but now the the US requires you to enter the export info on a database called "AESDirect."  Of course, the only people allowed access to the system are American citizens, so to fill you'll need to go through a customs broken that charges for each vehicle. 

A US-purchased vehicle has to be exported from the US and imported into Canada - so two separate sets of paperwork.  A Cdn-purchased vehicle has to be exported and then you have to show Cdn proof of purchase to Canada customs.  Regardless, all the export paperwork has to be emailed to the US border crossing you're going to use 72-hours in advance and you have to cross on a week day during normal business hours.

Basically, going OUTCAN will turn you into an administrative God.  I've never done so much paperwork in my life, and a lot of it it is layered in that you can't start Step D until you've completed Steps A, & C and have a piece of paper that proves it.  Don't get me started on applying for US Visas...

 

[MARS]

Don't get me started on applying for US Visas...

Actually, I would kind of like to get you started on that, since I am going to have to apply for one for my upcoming OUTCAN...PM me if you want, but I would like to hear about the hassles I need to prepare for.

 

[vonGarvin]

Actually, I would kind of like to get you started on that, since I am going to have to apply for one for my upcoming OUTCAN...PM me if you want, but I would like to hear about the hassles I need to prepare for.

Ditto.

 

[dimsum]

Basically, going OUTCAN will turn you into an administrative God.  I've never done so much paperwork in my life, and a lot of it it is layered in that you can't start Step D until you've completed Steps A, & C and have a piece of paper that proves it. 

Yep.  I feel like I should get PLAR for RMS Clerk.

 

[little jim]

Actually, I would kind of like to get you started on that, since I am going to have to apply for one for my upcoming OUTCAN...PM me if you want, but I would like to hear about the hassles I need to prepare for.

VISAS.  Funny it was easier for my wife to get work in the Southern USA than in Brandon.

Do your VISA paperwork early and make sure you make copies; it was all online and I ended up having to do the application personally.  For various reasons my move to the Southern USA involved driving from Manitoba through Canada to Ottawa to pick up our passports before crossing the boarder......

 

[PPCLI Guy]

The visa application almost undid me for both my US postings.  BLUF - do it as soon as you can, which is sadly not until you get a posting message, which doesn't happen until your screening is complete.....

Be prepared for some truly astounding questions, like "is the purpose of your stay to commit acts of sedition or sabotage", and "have you ever performed or assisting in genetic mutilation".

 

[RubberTree]

I enjoyed the question about selling organs for profit...
Thank you all for your responses. I never thought it would be such a big deal to bring a car into the US for 3 years....but here I am. What I am trying to do really is just keep it legal. God forbid I get into an accident in the US and my insurance company pulls the plug because I don't have the proper plates etc.
I was told that I couldn't renew my Canadian plates without Canadian insurance and my insurance (TD Meloche Moniche) won't insure us once we are in the US.
I did speak with Customs Border Patrol, Auto import division today and he was actually very helpful. He said that I can bring my car in under the foreign military exemption clause and even provided his number at the crossing to get in touch with him should I run into trouble. It sounds simple enough. The next hurdle will be plating the car in the US...but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

As for the US Visa...the application was involved but it is all online and once complete and photos submitted took me less than 4 days to get the visa attached to a (brand new) green passport. But as stated above...I recommend you start early as mileage may vary considerably.

 

[vonGarvin]

The visa application almost undid me for both my US postings.  BLUF - do it as soon as you can, which is sadly not until you get a posting message, which doesn't happen until your screening is complete.....

Thank you for this.  I hope to be done my part of the screening on Thursday.  Then the waiting....

Be prepared for some truly astounding questions, like "is the purpose of your stay to commit acts of sedition or sabotage", and "have you ever performed or assisting in genetic mutilation".

If someone's a tranny, would that count?  Or if they performed at a briss?  Or if it was a self act?  What happened to DADT? 

 

[Scoobs]

To any of those posted OUTCAN to the US (Scoobs, I'm looking at you here...) what did you do with your vehicle? Apparently, because I don't have an integrated tire pressure monitoring system on my car I don't "conform" to US standards and can't import the car. However, the CBP website does say "Those belonging to members of foreign armed forces, foreign diplomatic personnel, or other individuals who come within the class of persons for whom free entry has been authorized by the Department of State in accordance with international law." are exempt from safety and emissions standards.
Has anybody used this? Or, how have you gotten around it?
Thanks!
RT

I had absolutely no problems crossing the border with my F-150 truck and trailer.  In fact, the US border guys even let my mother-in-law stay in the truck while my wife and I went into the CBP building IOT get all the paperwork stamped (normally no one is allowed to stay in the vehicles; the border guys tend to give us a break as military pers).  I had my Kia Forte shipped here.  That was not fun as the Canadian shipper damaged the **** out of my car.  A strap on the car above mine came loose and pelted my car down the road.  Plus, somehow the bug deflector was 3/4 ripped off and the bottom front of the car was badly scraped.  The shipping company had to pay for the repairs and a car rental, but that was a serious pain in the *** dealing with them.

I'm not planning on using a car shipper upon my return APS 16.  I'm going to see if IRP will pay for a Uhaul car trailer rental as I plan on pulling the car back with my F-150.

I still have Cdn plates and registration.  My US insurance kicks in on 1 July.  I told them that I have Cdn plates and they didn't seem to care.  Insurance is more expensive down here, especially if you change your plates, registration, insurance, etc. over right away as you'll have zero American credit history.  After one year, the cost will go down significantly as you build up US credit history (I now constantly get mail offering me credit cards, insurance, etc).

For your vehicles, get letters of conformance from your manufacturers.  That will help when crossing the border.

I looked into changing registration to down here, but be prepared for BS.  Most States have the need for "titles", whereas we usually down have these for provinces.  I have loans for my two vehicles and thus "liens" on them.  The States throw in the added "fun" of titles and not all of them do this electronically (you'll be surprised how behind the US is for a lot of things that we take for granted in Canada, e.g. chip cards for debit/credit cards, privacy in banks, etc).  One of my finance companies (hint: it's a bank with the word "Scotia" in it, ) has outright refused to send a letter to the Department of Motor Vehicles as they won't "release their interest in the vehicle".  Ya, right, I've been paying it off for 4 years now and have one year left and they're being pricks to me.  Grrr...

On a different note, I highly recommend becoming a TD Canada Trust customer if you are not.  Also, get a credit line with them.  When coming down here, open an account with TD Bank (this is what they are called down here), but be warned that they are NOT the same company.  TD Canada Trust does own them though and this makes it really easy (and free) to transfer money from your Canadian bank accounts to your US bank account.  Open a US dollar account at TD Canada Trust as this is necessary to transfer US dollars from your Cdn bank account to your US bank account.  Plus, when applying for a US credit card, tell TD Bank to use your Cdn credit history.  If you go with another US bank, they will give you a silly credit card with something like a $500 credit limit, whereas with TD Bank I was able to get a very decent credit limit (>$15,000).  Of course, this will be dependent on your Cdn credit history.  I use this card to pay everything as I get pts (that I've used for airplane tickets), pay it off immediately, and have paid $0 in interest so far.  Google "TD Cross Border Banking" and read up.

Another thing, due to the lack of US credit history at the beginning of your posting, you may have problems getting a TV or cell phone provider.  DISH networks outright refused to give me equipment, so I went with Comcast Cable (who you go with will depend on the area you live in).  For the cell phone, I went with Verizon, but tell the people at the store to tell their call centre (trust me, this will happen) to use your Cdn credit history.  My wife and I had to go into the Verizon store three times prior to the Call Centre person finally saying that they could use our Cdn credit.  Literally three minutes later, we were signed up. 

The key is, "patience is a virtue".....

Hope this info helps...

 

[Scoobs]

Yep.  I feel like I should get PLAR for RMS Clerk.

Agreed 200%.  I've never done so much paperwork in my life.  Invest in a good printer/scanner/copier.  Trust me, you'll need it.

 

[Scoobs]

The visa application almost undid me for both my US postings.  BLUF - do it as soon as you can, which is sadly not until you get a posting message, which doesn't happen until your screening is complete.....

Be prepared for some truly astounding questions, like "is the purpose of your stay to commit acts of sedition or sabotage", and "have you ever performed or assisting in genetic mutilation".

Ya, I had some chuckles over the questions that are asked, but I found the Visa application process simple.  For your spouse to work, it is a pain.  Contact the Protocol pers at the Embassy in Washington as soon as you get in country and start the process for a work authorization.  After that, your spouse can get a Social Security Number and then work.  What fun, what fun.  Don't get me started on the tax BS, i.e. type of Cdn resident (deemed, factual, non-resident).  Grr....

 

[Scoobs]

Thank you for this.  I hope to be done my part of the screening on Thursday.  Then the waiting....If someone's a tranny, would that count?  Or if they performed at a briss?  Or if it was a self act?  What happened to DADT? 

I know that you are joking, but I wouldn't joke about that stuff with the US border pers.  As examples, the US doesn't recognize same sex marriages or common law marriages.  Trust me, it's very different down here.

 

[dimsum]

Agreed 200%.  I've never done so much paperwork in my life.  Invest in a good printer/scanner/copier.  Trust me, you'll need it.

I just downloaded a PDF app for my phone and emailed stuff to my civ or work email. 

Also, another option (probably not as needed for US but not a bad idea for places like Europe and Australia) if you have $ from selling your home is to get with HSBC Premier.  You need to sink $100k with them in investments or whatever, but Premier allows you to link your two HSBC accounts (Canada and wherever) for instant transfers.  That helped me quite a bit out in Australia.

I'm not sure what the grace period is once you get posted back to Canada and need to take that $ out for a home again, though.  I'd just transfer whatever is in the overseas account to HSBC Canada, cancel the overseas account and then cancel the Canadian one too.

 

[Happy Guy]

I had absolutely no problems crossing the border with my F-150 truck and trailer.  In fact, the US border guys even let my mother-in-law stay in the truck while my wife and I went into the CBP building IOT get all the paperwork stamped (normally no one is allowed to stay in the vehicles; the border guys tend to give us a break as military pers).  I had my Kia Forte shipped here.  That was not fun as the Canadian shipper damaged the **** out of my car.  A strap on the car above mine came loose and pelted my car down the road.  Plus, somehow the bug deflector was 3/4 ripped off and the bottom front of the car was badly scraped.  The shipping company had to pay for the repairs and a car rental, but that was a serious pain in the *** dealing with them.

I'm not planning on using a car shipper upon my return APS 16.  I'm going to see if IRP will pay for a Uhaul car trailer rental as I plan on pulling the car back with my F-150.

I still have Cdn plates and registration.  My US insurance kicks in on 1 July.  I told them that I have Cdn plates and they didn't seem to care.  Insurance is more expensive down here, especially if you change your plates, registration, insurance, etc. over right away as you'll have zero American credit history.  After one year, the cost will go down significantly as you build up US credit history (I now constantly get mail offering me credit cards, insurance, etc).

For your vehicles, get letters of conformance from your manufacturers.  That will help when crossing the border.

I looked into changing registration to down here, but be prepared for BS.  Most States have the need for "titles", whereas we usually down have these for provinces.  I have loans for my two vehicles and thus "liens" on them.  The States throw in the added "fun" of titles and not all of them do this electronically (you'll be surprised how behind the US is for a lot of things that we take for granted in Canada, e.g. chip cards for debit/credit cards, privacy in banks, etc).  One of my finance companies (hint: it's a bank with the word "Scotia" in it, ) has outright refused to send a letter to the Department of Motor Vehicles as they won't "release their interest in the vehicle".  Ya, right, I've been paying it off for 4 years now and have one year left and they're being pricks to me.  Grrr...

On a different note, I highly recommend becoming a TD Canada Trust customer if you are not.  Also, get a credit line with them.  When coming down here, open an account with TD Bank (this is what they are called down here), but be warned that they are NOT the same company.  TD Canada Trust does own them though and this makes it really easy (and free) to transfer money from your Canadian bank accounts to your US bank account.  Open a US dollar account at TD Canada Trust as this is necessary to transfer US dollars from your Cdn bank account to your US bank account.  Plus, when applying for a US credit card, tell TD Bank to use your Cdn credit history.  If you go with another US bank, they will give you a silly credit card with something like a $500 credit limit, whereas with TD Bank I was able to get a very decent credit limit (>$15,000).  Of course, this will be dependent on your Cdn credit history.  I use this card to pay everything as I get pts (that I've used for airplane tickets), pay it off immediately, and have paid $0 in interest so far.  Google "TD Cross Border Banking" and read up.

Another thing, due to the lack of US credit history at the beginning of your posting, you may have problems getting a TV or cell phone provider.  DISH networks outright refused to give me equipment, so I went with Comcast Cable (who you go with will depend on the area you live in).  For the cell phone, I went with Verizon, but tell the people at the store to tell their call centre (trust me, this will happen) to use your Cdn credit history.  My wife and I had to go into the Verizon store three times prior to the Call Centre person finally saying that they could use our Cdn credit.  Literally three minutes later, we were signed up. 

The key is, "patience is a virtue".....

Hope this info helps...

My family came back from the US in 2014.  Much like you said you require patience.
We never managed to get a US credit card because the major credit cards refused to look at our Cdn credit history.  It actually was not a hinderance because we used debit and for large purchases we telephoned ahead of time to the bank to tell them.
As for the car we changed to have US registration and inusrance.  Fortunately for us the local State licence bureau knew what they were doing and it wasn't that bad to get a "title".  However it was somewhat difficult to get the licence bureau to get them to accept that as an Exchange Officer with the US Armed Forces I was entitled to pay the special military rate.  I had to get the J1 office to write and sign a letter stating that under the SOFA agreement I was entitled to this rate.
As for the inventory you need to give a copy to the moving company who gives it to the customs broker.  When you finally clear your F&E you provide another copy to CBSA.  Make sure that they stamp your inventory as cleared through customs.