POLICE PATROLLING METHODOLGY

[pbi]

Thanks to all of you who replied. Very interesting. I doubt we will ever see a wholesale return to foot patrol and neighbourhood station houses, but the foot guys obviously still have great value. Good to see the explanation of the value of the mounted units: no doubt many people might share Grey Matter's skepticism at first glance. I also saw the TPS mounted unit in action at the Queen's Park riot: very effective, although some of Mr Clark's sh*t disturbers were ready with "anti-cavalry" TTPs. With proper protective gear, the horse and rider combination is very intimidating.

Cheers

 

[niner domestic]

I remember last year when Toronto lost one of their horses to a hit and run.  The poor beast was catastrophically wounded and had to be put down on site by his fellow officers.  His name was Brigadier.  http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=2136

His replacement was named Commodore, a lovely red Belgian.  Then there's fabulous people like Dorothy Keith, who make huge donations to kit out the horses with new saddles because their old ones are giving them sores.  The mounted units are a always a crowd pleaser and a crowd controller.

 

[Meridian]

Interesting topic....

I'm wondering if anyone would have any idea why the STM's security force (Montreal Transit), would require an unmarked vehicle, and why they would park it and hang out on a street with absolutely no public transit (Ste Catherine).  Im highly doubting a logical answer, or at least one that would not relate to the amount of hot women on the street in question, but in any event.. the unmarked vehicle struck me as odd.

I do however tend to see a fairly strong presence on Ste Catherines of police not in their cars, though the cars are usually nearby...  This is in SHARP contrast to Rideau Street in Ottawa, which never seems to have an officer in the area....  and where I have witnessed numerous criminal acts in broad daylight.

 

[pbi]

...and where I have witnessed numerous criminal acts in broad daylight.

Interesting observation. I recall returning from Cyprus in 1991. Shortly after my return, I was in Ottawa. I saw more beggars and street people in one day in downtown Ottawa than I saw in six months in all of Cyprus. Nice for the nation's capital. (But not quite as bad as what I saw in DC 1997-98).

Cheers

 

[Meridian]

Interesting observation. I recall returning from Cyprus in 1991. Shortly after my return, I was in Ottawa. I saw more beggars and street people in one day in downtown Ottawa than I saw in six months in all of Cyprus. Nice for the nation's capital. (But not quite as bad as what I saw in DC 1997-98).

Cheers

I believe it.  I used to live right off Rideau, near the Air Force building on King Edward,  and worked in a Bar on Elgin.  The amount of homeless people I passed every night going to work was insane. No way I could have offered them all money, I would have been handing over my entire paycheque!

A Citizen article I read a few years back stated that the 500 square feet of the Shoppers Drug Mart entrance to Rideau Centre in Ottawa was something like the most crime ridden area in Canada.    Prostitution, drugs, gangs, stabbings, murders, etc...  I've seen four of the five!  My friend who is now a 2LT Inf used to work security at the McDonalds there..  insane.  We always wondered why there wasn't permanent police presence in the area, given the amount of tourists and citizens using the public transit.

Anyway, sorry to derail.

 

[edgar]

The thing with all these alternative methods of patrol is that when the officer makes an arrest, somebody has to come transport the custody to jail.

Sorry for the digression, but is it racism if you still call it the paddywagon?

 

[Greymatters]

'Paddy' can be a slur against an Irish persons ethnic background, their cultural background, even their national background, but the Irish are not a 'race'.  At least not in most reference books - you might find one that says they are a 'race' if you look hard enough. 

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Sorry for the digression, but is it racism if you still call it the paddywagon?

No.  And we call it a meat wagon. 

As already mentioned, manpower limits the luxury of having walking patrols in high crime areas.  Most big urban centers are running call to call, and don't generally have much time to be proactive.  However, most police will agree that when they are finishing a call in a junk area just lingering on a side street, you can end up seeing a tonne of stuff that just seems to waltz into your view.  IMO if you are going to pull guys (non gender specific for the over sensitive types) out of cars, put them on bikes.  You are far more effective than being on foot, and you can sneak around a lot better that way.  The bad guys don't expect cops on bikes generally.   
Also agree that there is a need for access to the computer data base while on patrol.  Maybe there could be a Crackberry device that would interface and run checks for a foot patrol officer, but that would be big cash.  However, only the lowest strata of losers walk or bike around to commit crime.  The fish you want are generally in cars, and you need one to do a vehicle stop. 
Of course, an actual solution would be to give out real punishment for crimes, but that is SO un-Canadian it is even crazy to suggest.  (but it's July 2 now, so I don't have to feel too bad)

 

[noneck]

Zipperhead_Cop-

N Van and Bby Detachments trialed both a Blackberry style handhled computer and a small handlebar mounted computer. A buddy in my section used the blackberry model and said it worked great, it was however prohibitively expensive.

For all the non-LEO's reviewing this thread, ask any operational police officer and they will give you a list of proactive solutions for policing in their particlular area. Money, manpower and management are the only limiting factors!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I have so far zero complaints about the N. Vancouver detachment, everytime I have called them they responded quickly. My only pet peeve was reporting suspicious activity on Cap road and having a silly game of “not my area” being played, after tearing a strip off of the dispatcher and pointing out that it was their job to pass it on to their counterparts in West Van. The average citizen does not care about the ‘exact” boundaries and if given to much of a run around they will just not bother next time.

(for those not from the area, a small part of N. Vancouver falls under the West Van police force coverage, despite a large river and canyon separating the two. )

 

[edgar]

I have so far zero complaints about the N. Vancouver detachment, everytime I have called them they responded quickly. My only pet peeve was reporting suspicious activity on Cap road and having a silly game of “not my area” being played, after tearing a strip off of the dispatcher and pointing out that it was their job to pass it on to their counterparts in West Van. The average citizen does not care about the ‘exact” boundaries and if given to much of a run around they will just not bother next time.

(for those not from the area, a small part of N. Vancouver falls under the West Van police force coverage, despite a large river and canyon separating the two. )

Sounds right. I got a buddy on the Delta BC police says its not the tiny jurisdictions, it's the lack of teamwork between the forces. I've seen his idealism sort of crushed over the years under an accumulation of crap like that.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Years ago on the hovercraft we were giving a ride to new officers from the various detachments/police forces along Fraser River, the purpose was to help them understand the river and how the various authorities worked together. One young recruit asked:

If you pick up a body in the middle of the river, how do you know which jurisdiction it goes to? (Fraser River is a boundary for some municipalities)

My reply:
Simple we just look at which force last issued a ticket to one of our crew members and they are the ones that get the body! He looked a little shocked..  ;D

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Sounds right. I got a buddy on the Delta BC police says its not the tiny jurisdictions, it's the lack of teamwork between the forces. I've seen his idealism sort of crushed over the years under an accumulation of crap like that.

If you look at the very worst case laws out of the SCC that have affected policing in the last while, the vast majority have come from BC.  Things for police out there tend to suck, from what I have heard. 
Interjurisdictional urination contests rarely have anything to do with the officers on the road.  That is a departmental policy issue.  Don't blame the guys on the road.  If you are calling in something that is out of jurisdiction, the officers on the road will never know, because the dispatchers won't tell them.  I agree that it is the dispatchers job to pass it on to another force, but there seems to be a universal theme to many dispatchers...

 

[Colin Parkinson]

When I was helping to move a female friend, the abusive landlord changed the locks while we took one load to the new house (she had paid the rent fully, but wanted the depoist back) We called the RCMP, the constable came listened to both sides and ordered the landlord to open the door and give us a key He refused, the cop was shaking with rage, but kept his cool (mostly) he turned around and told my friend to take a sledgehammer to the door if the landlord would not open it and then turned to him and said "Don't bother calling us because you deserve worse" Man I could have bought the cop a beer right there and then!!! It helped that we remained polite and to the point while the landlord acted like an idiot.

My wife did a stint at court 100, she thinks are legal system here is screwy, everyone pretending that perp isn't stoned at his trial or changing dates because they are to lazy to get a lawyer. In Malaysia, showing up stoned to court will result in imediate 6 months rehab, no lawyerdespite being given time to get one,  to bad you have 20 minutes to prepare.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I read an excellent article once from a self confessed hippy that had moved to Singapore.  The gist of the article was that intitally he was afraid to live in a "police state" for fear of losing all of his precious granola eating rights.  But over time, he realized that normal, law abiding citizens didn't need to worry what the government was doing, because they were safe and secure.  He felt comfortable letting his kids play outside, and his taxes were quite low, due to the fact that being a social burden was quite a miserable thing to be there.  Where he had been forced by his employer to go there for two years, he ended up signing on for a six year contract, and hoped to stay on longer. 
All in all, police are always going to be busy with arseholes, and won't take time to screw around with a "normal" citizen.  So play nice and be normal.  We have bigger fish to fry. 
Like legitimate gun owners  :dontpanic:
( :-* Colin P)

 

[Sheerin]

Speaking of horses, I got a good laugh last Saturday when I saw a guy driving a high end BMW get pulled over by a cop on a horse and get a ticket of some kind.  This happened at the corner of Front and Bay.  It was great, there were tourists taking photos of the event.  Though in a way I did feel bad for the guy, but at least the girl he was with was hot

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I read an excellent article once from a self confessed hippy that had moved to Singapore.  The gist of the article was that intitally he was afraid to live in a "police state" for fear of losing all of his precious granola eating rights.  But over time, he realized that normal, law abiding citizens didn't need to worry what the government was doing, because they were safe and secure.  He felt comfortable letting his kids play outside, and his taxes were quite low, due to the fact that being a social burden was quite a miserable thing to be there.  Where he had been forced by his employer to go there for two years, he ended up signing on for a six year contract, and hoped to stay on longer. 
All in all, police are always going to be busy with arseholes, and won't take time to screw around with a "normal" citizen.  So play nice and be normal.  We have bigger fish to fry. 
Like legitimate gun owners  :dontpanic:
( :-* Colin P)

If you are going to fry my "fish" you better bring a 14" pan  ;D