Passchendaele movie

[Kirkhill]

Working up in Alaska I was introduced to Alaskan King Crabs - big ugly beasts that some folks apparently like to eat - me, I'm not a big fan of spiders either terrestrial or aquatic.

However, like Alexander Keith says "Those that like it like it a lot".  They are apparently prepared to pay a fair buck for these things so fishermen go to sea in small boats and drown trying to catch them.

The crabs are interesting critters.  The Alaskans figure that they capture something of the character of their community.

When the crabs are brought to dock they are bailed out of the holds in open net baskets.  There are no lids to keep them in the basket.  Every now and then one of the crabs will realise this and make a break for the top of the net, occasionally even making to the lip.  At that point they are within an ace of scuttling down the dock and back to the water and freedom.  This could present the fishers and processors with a problem, lost profits or at very least they might be required to put a lid on the nets slowing down the offload.  However they have never needed to do that.  The crabs themselves take care of the problem.  Everytime they see one of their number ready to make the break - they drag it bag into the net and they all suffer the same fate equally.

Perhaps its not just Alaskan King Crabs and Alaskan Fishers that operate that way.  Zeff your comments, if they are representative, seem to suggest that Canadian artists share some of the same characteristics of those crabs.

Paul Gross is a pretty fair business man judging by his success, not a bad story teller either and has an attitude to Canadian authority that doesn't seem to suck.  If the government wanted to hire somebody to tell a story that needed telling, and the Passchendaele/WWI story does, then he seems to be a reasonable investment risk.

Best of luck on your own projects.  I hope you find a receptive market.

 

[22B]

Pauls Gross's father is a Strathcona.  His photo is hanging in the Regimental Museum, he's shown holding the Guidon.

 

[George Wallace]

Pauls Gross's father is a Strathcona.   His photo is hanging in the Regimental Museum, he's shown holding the Guidon.

He was also CO of the RCD.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

My Dad was at Vimy, as a part of the Canadian Machine Gun Corps.

He made it very clear that if it had not been for the fact that the British Generals did not PLAN for a breakthru at Vimy, the Canadian Coprs could have "marched all the way to Berlin".

Jim Bunting. Toronto.

Your dad was wrong, but its a nice thought and I don't doubt he genuinely felt that way.

Given that their doctrine was firmly artillery-based, just how would a British general "plan" to move heavy howitzers, by horse no less, through the heavily cratered ground at Vimy?

 

[onecat]

"That's for sure - isn't Vimy the battle that nobody talks about except us?  It certainly doesn't seem to be a highlight in general histories of the First World War."

It is. Rates a page or less in any British book I've seen.  But then most Birtish histories give Canada little if any credit, for the battle or for our role in the war.  We get mixed in with the 3 or 5 pages they give to the commonwealth or Empire focres.  I fine the lack of respect we Canadians get from both British and US histories in both wars disappointing given the major we played in both wars.  I find more disappointing from the British for in both war we there from the beginning, gave our total support and amount of troops and equipment. From what I remember their was little of any British help in Vimy and it was the first real break though of the war.. so given the lack of respect british histores have of canada its not surprising they would down play something they had little help in creating.

That makes this movie all more important, as Canadians needs to see Canadians in action.

 

[zeff]

Gentlemen,
I respectfully understand your points, but you fail to understand mine.
I have no issues with this movie, or with Paul Gross. My issue is with the disregard for the process, and lack of accountability by the government. Would you support a $5.5 million grant to a project that wasn't pro Canadian? Would you support any project that supperceded the maximum funding allowable, with no rhyme or reason? Would you support a grant for a project (construction, oil, the arts, whatever) where there wasn't a tender, a competition process, or even a program in place, and the recipient was someone who was in favour with the Government?
Perhaps you should look at what the Liberal Government is currently going through and then ask yourselves, does the end justify the means?

 

[George Wallace]

............... My issue is with the disregard for the process, and lack of accountability by the government. Would you support a $5.5 million grant to a project that wasn't pro Canadian? Would you support any project that supperceded the maximum funding allowable, with no rhyme or reason? Would you support a grant for a project (construction, oil, the arts, whatever) where there wasn't a tender, a competition process, or even a program in place, and the recipient was someone who was in favour with the Government?
Perhaps you should look at what the Liberal Government is currently going through and then ask yourselves, does the end justify the means?

zeff

I think that you may think that you are providing a valid arguement, but in fact you are not.   If you look into the matter a little more you will find that your concerns, although you think they are valid, are not because you have not researched the matter enough.   You have jumped on a 'Band Wagon' and spewing off in a 'Knee Jerk' manner without looking into how a person/organization/company goes about getting Government Funding for projects in the Arts.   There is no "tender or competition process", as you allude there should be, in matters like this.   It is an application for a Grant process that he would have had to go through.   As such, the end result is that he won approval and was awarded the Grant.   End of story.  

Unless you are a Conspiracy Theorist, there should be no need to argue the point further.

 

[zeff]

Mr. Wallace,
I'm afraid I have done my research and it is you who is mistaken sir.
Grants for film projects in Alberta must go through the Film Development office, and are capped at $1.5 million (this program is always over subscribed). Mr Gross (who technically should not be able to access these funds because he is not an Alberta based producer, unless he is partnering with a local) is receiving $5.5 million under the "banner" of the Centennial Project. Yes, this is a different program, however, if you examine the 17 grant programs under the Centennial Programs and Projects banner, none of them are applicable to this kind of project.  SO the question again is how did this come about?
Mr. Wallace, if I didn't know better, I would swear that you were intimately involved with the PC Party.

 

[George Wallace]

ziff

A couple of quotes to start this off:

Perhaps you should look at what the Liberal Government is currently going through and then ask yourselves, does the end justify the means?

Mr. Wallace, if I didn't know better, I would swear that you were intimately involved with the PC Party.

I see that you are trying to cover all the bases here so:

Unless you are a Conspiracy Theorist, there should be no need to argue the point further.

I have not gone into the Alberta, nor the Federal, Grants programs to research any of this.  I have not applied for any documents related to this through the Access of Information Act, and I suspect neither have you.  I do know that Mr Gross lives in Alberta.  I do know that you are permitted to apply for several Grants through different Agencies for Projects in the Arts.  I do not know if the Grants awarded to Mr Gross (not necessarily Mr Paul Gross) are from one or more source and whether they/it all totals the amount that you are going on about. 

I still feel that you are raising a non-issue.


Oh!  As an aside; my personal politics are mine and none of your business one way or the other.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

As I recall, Canadian radio stations and CBC are required to play a certain percentage of Canadian content. IMHO it is always nice when a decent Canadian program/movie is produced, vice the standard crap that is made up just to fill the quota.Example: The Canadian version of "who wants to be a millionaire".

Shows like "Trailer park boys" and "Corner gas" reflect Canadian culture pretty well.

 

[NMPeters]

We don't know for a fact that it's not receiving Federal Government funding. He may very well have applied for it and received it or is still waiting for the outcome of his application. There are many programs available to Canadian artists that they may apply for and often do receive. I've seen many movies and programs that flash the Canadian wordmark during the credits indicating that they have received the funding.

 

[George Wallace]

I think it is great a movie is being made about the Battle, but I wonder why it could not be made without CDN government assistance?   Is it that CDN investors and producers really don't care about what is being filmed as long as it makes money?   It sure is disappointing to see so many scream for CDN content but the audience just doesn't show....how sad!

It is typically Canadian to want the everything, but be to cheap to pay for it.

 

[zeff]

Rest assured, that this film will receive Federal Tax Credit monies as well as Telefilm monies, just as any production would.
Read Todd Babiuk's article in todays Edmonton Journal for more info.

 

[Hollywog]

Glad to see it happen I'm not sure I want the eratta of another valour and the horror series but I think its better to make one than not to.

5 million is cheap compared to other things ottawa spends money on.

 

[zeff]

People, it's not the Federal Government who is giving $5.5 million, it's the Alberta Government. The Federal Government will also be contributing funds, it just hasn't been formally announced yet.

 

[Zartan]

I think it is great a movie is being made about the Battle, but I wonder why it could not be made without CDN government assistance?   Is it that CDN investors and producers really don't care about what is being filmed as long as it makes money?   It sure is disappointing to see so many scream for CDN content but the audience just doesn't show....how sad!

That's exactly the problem, nobody watches Canadian cinema. The largest grossing (English) Canadian film (domestically) was Mr. Gross' "Men With Brooms" at a whoping $5 million (not counting inflation) - about a quarter of Passchendaele's production costs. It's just no real Canadian film industry outside of Atom Egoyan and David Cronenberg (and more so, Quebec, where they have a flourishing film industry), no real apparatus outside of the government to get anything done. This might help start things up a tad - the film already has wide distribution in place, and this is the kind of thing schools may go on field trips to (or at least buy copies of) - so there is some promise into the film's success. I'm sure most people on this forum will see it, I figure, at least... 

At the very least, it will last a great time through our education system - my high school has a copy of Gallipoli, which is watched by the grade 10 Social Studies classes, so I don't see why this shouldn't join or replace it.

Also, to Mr. Zeff, it's the Oil & Gas royalties that are making this happen.

 

[zeff]

Mr Zartan,
While I realize that the monies that are funding this movie are coming from the oil & gas revenues, I don't see how it makes it right. The fact still remains that these funds were arbitrarily given to this project because Mr Klein deemed it so.
If you want Canadian movies to be in our school libraries, I suggest you examine the NFB's film library. $5.5 million will provide thousands of copies of movies/documentaries for schools all across Alberta. Your scenario will see $5.5 million going into this movie, and then the school boards will have to purchase copies for their libraries, yet another cash outlay. But then again Alberta has oil and gas revenues, so we won't mind paying for things twice...

 

[George Wallace]

I think you have some sort of hidden agenda.   Could you be honest and forthright and just come straight out and say what it is?

While I realize that the monies that are funding this movie are coming from the oil & gas revenues, I don't see how it makes it right. The fact still remains that these funds were arbitrarily given to this project because Mr Klein deemed it so.
If you want Canadian movies to be in our school libraries, I suggest you examine the NFB's film library. $5.5 million will provide thousands of copies of movies/documentaries for schools all across Alberta. Your scenario will see $5.5 million going into this movie, and then the school boards will have to purchase copies for their libraries, yet another cash outlay. But then again Alberta has oil and gas revenues, so we won't mind paying for things twice...

I would like to point out a flaw in your logic: If we don't fund Canadian Films then we won't have any in our school libraries.   What good is $5.5 million to a School Board with the stipulation to purchase Canadian Historical Films, if no such films exist?    Your logic escapes me.   Don't turn around now and say that the money can now be used for some other education needs, such as educating the kids on the ways of PETA or the Sierra Club.   That would cause many of us to question your mores even more than we are now.

 

[Zartan]

Mr. Zeff,

Canadian Cinema is dependent upon government grants to even exist - in fact, the same can be said of much of Canada's television (ex. CBC) and music industry (how many CD's have you seen which have "thanks to the government of Canada for their financial assistance in this project", FACTOR, or music videos with VideoFACT have you seen in the credits?) for example.

Furthermore, I never insinuated that Albertan schools would have to purchase copies - it would just make too much sense (for them to buy, I mean) - however, that is my fault. What I had been meaning, is that with such a high profile film in Canada, that is actually from Canada, one may just see our Cinema get a spark of life. This could partially be result of schools ordering copies of the film, which could mean at least thousands could be preserved for most of Canada's next generation to see. (We see the Australians at Gallipoli, so why not Canadians in France?)

I believe that this production can and will be a valuable contribution to teh self-awareness of Canadians, and to our film industry as a whole. There is a lack of mass-media to show Canadians what their forefathers sacrificed and what they sacrificed for - if this can get out to as many people as I believe it will, you may see a dampening among the attitudes of the new generations towards our past and our sacrifices and triumphs. You may see enlightenment. One can only hope.

 

[zeff]

Mr. Wallace,

Mr. Zartan implied that the Candian Film Industry needs support (I agree with his statement and have a firm understanding of film because I've been in the industry for 14 years). He then went on to suggest that this type of film can replace (or join) films like Gallipoli (non-Cdn) in school libraries. Hey great, and good point on his part. But then he goes on to mention that it's oil & gas revenues that are making it happen. This is where my issue started. These funds were given to a film outside of all established programs, grossly in excess of all maximum grants, and came about because Klein was schmoozed by a celebrity.
There is no hidden agenda, it's called asking for governmental accountability. 

Perhaps you should go back to the beginning and re-read previous posting rather than accuse me of hidden agenda's. I've said the same thing from the beginning.

Mr. Zartan, I'm glad there are people out there like you who want to see Canadian films supported, especially films about the war. The funding landscape in Canada is Government based, but there is also private funding available in grant and equity participation forms. Most of the thank yous you mentioned to the Federal Government, are courtesy of tax credit programs.
While the Alberta Government has modestly supported film during the Klein administration, Alberta has one of the lowest funding programs in Canada. This is what makes this whole Passchendaele grant out of the ordinary. If the provincial government sudden wanted to increase support of Alberta/Canadian films then why didn't they increase the funding envelope so Mr Gross could apply there like everyone else? Why suddenly did they give $5.5 million dollars to this project. Klein said he funded the project because it was the year of the veteran (and our Centennial). Why then wasn't it budgeted for in the last fiscal? Did this year suddenly sneak up on them?