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Ottawa seeking ‘impartial’ board members to review military colleges

Maybe the CAF could shutter RMC and use the space to get serious about second language training.
The theory behind language training has gotten much better. Witness the explosion of online language apps.

I think we could do a much better job of teaching “languages” and “how to learn languages” than just narrowly focus on the french/english duality.
 
Remi Steeves, a hard core sepratists was my teacher. Coupled that I was a red-neck western Canadian farm boy who had no qualms telling him his cause was full of shit did not make for an advantageous learning experience. Thankfully the Navy yanked us out there about a month and half early to get us to Venture and on to our careers. Some folks got tested, I was not one of them. In fact I have never had a french test.
I might have had the same/similar instructor…
 
The theory behind language training has gotten much better. Witness the explosion of online language apps.

I think we could do a much better job of teaching “languages” and “how to learn languages” than just narrowly focus on the french/english duality.
Agree 100%.

I have completed a five week CAF French course, and use Babble. The in person instruction, coupled with the way Babble teaches would have been far more effective than either on their own.

The CAF material is terrible, almost as if they didn't actually want you to learn French.
 
I sure hope, as a CO, you were able to give admin measures to your folks in their FOL and not necessarily yours.
As a « tête-carrée originaire de Toronto » with an EEC SL-rating (I joined with a 4343, for those who remember the old system - I have enjoyed learning and conversing in French since well before joining the CAF - one of my Ontario Gr.13 honour credits in fact was in French Grammar, so I’m not one of those ‘why should I have to learn and use French, kind of people), I certainly did, and that was even though my unit was a designated ELU. In fact, I pressed to have my unit designated a BU, which eventually happened. Squadron members felt very comfortable approaching me in their FOL, which I strongly encouraged, and they did so regularly.

I see two major issues with the CAF’s SLE program:

1. Anglos are not provided as much official opportunity to learn and retain SL through their careers administratively. I lost track of how many times I was told a course wasn’t available for me - a pre-Command ECC (at the time) Anglo trying to upgrade/improve gets no love from the SLE system, and that isn’t the only “sorry [rank] Angloggins, nothing avail for you at this time” situation I saw over my career. It was only being appointed to command that I finally [after about a 15-years dearth of SLE opportunities] (re)qualified for SL training/coaching. If levels are going to be mandated, then the system must provide equitable opportunities for both FOL groups to receive SL training opportunities, not be biased to one group of another based on ‘well they have a tougher time since so many others use the other language.’; and

2. I firmly believe the evaluations of SL capability are not equitable between French and English. I have lost track of how many times I tested for oral expression and was told I was ‘one mark short of an E’…on my last test, my instructor couldn’t believe that I tested out (again) with a C. She even recommended that I ask for a formal re-assessment, but I have been down that road before, and if even to make a point, I chose to be done with it…if testing was ever needed again, I could repeat a C in my sleep, so I chose not to fight for the EEE. I’ve spoken with Francos who had an E and if they spoke the same way as an Anglo testing in French, would have had a C or even just a B.

The point of training in « la langue maternelle » would be a reasonable point, if the member was going to spend an entire career in an FLU with no expectation/possibility of posting to an ELU, let alone the reality that many of those FLUs conduct work in English by choice, even though there’s a full set of French MBs in the tech library/Maint shop. Tech vocabulary courses are intended to bridge member linguistic capabilities to support training thereafter on fleets where the majority of activity occurs in English, because, as you noted, even in France, (and ICAO HQ in Montréal), English is the international language of aviation.

Regards
G2G
 
SL is very NCR centric, as is the testing. They C isn't what the majority of leaders need to be able to converse with their troops. Its so an individual can sound pretentious around the other EXs, speaking bureaucratic French. I sometimes think that the equivalent should be to expect Francophones to speak Shakespearean English to be able to be exempt.
 
As a « tête-carrée originaire de Toronto » with an EEC SL-rating (I joined with a 4343, for those who remember the old system - I have enjoyed learning and conversing in French since well before joining the CAF - one of my Ontario Gr.13 honour credits in fact was in French Grammar, so I’m not one of those ‘why should I have to learn and use French, kind of people), I certainly did, and that was even though my unit was a designated ELU. In fact, I pressed to have my unit designated a BU, which eventually happened. Squadron members felt very comfortable approaching me in their FOL, which I strongly encouraged, and they did so regularly.

I see two major issues with the CAF’s SLE program:

1. Anglos are not provided as much official opportunity to learn and retain SL through their careers administratively. I lost track of how many times I was told a course wasn’t available for me - a pre-Command ECC (at the time) Anglo trying to upgrade/improve gets no love from the SLE system, and that isn’t the only “sorry [rank] Angloggins, nothing avail for you at this time” situation I saw over my career. It was only being appointed to command that I finally [after about a 15-years dearth of SLE opportunities] (re)qualified for SL training/coaching. If levels are going to be mandated, then the system must provide equitable opportunities for both FOL groups to receive SL training opportunities, not be biased to one group of another based on ‘well they have a tougher time since so many others use the other language.’; and

2. I firmly believe the evaluations of SL capability are not equitable between French and English. I have lost track of how many times I tested for oral expression and was told I was ‘one mark short of an E’…on my last test, my instructor couldn’t believe that I tested out (again) with a C. She even recommended that I ask for a formal re-assessment, but I have been down that road before, and if even to make a point, I chose to be done with it…if testing was ever needed again, I could repeat a C in my sleep, so I chose not to fight for the EEE. I’ve spoken with Francos who had an E and if they spoke the same way as an Anglo testing in French, would have had a C or even just a B.

The point of training in « la langue maternelle » would be a reasonable point, if the member was going to spend an entire career in an FLU with no expectation/possibility of posting to an ELU, let alone the reality that many of those FLUs conduct work in English by choice, even though there’s a full set of French MBs in the tech library/Maint shop. Tech vocabulary courses are intended to bridge member linguistic capabilities to support training thereafter on fleets where the majority of activity occurs in English, because, as you noted, even in France, (and ICAO HQ in Montréal), English is the international language of aviation.

Regards
G2G
It took 22 years of asking to get loaded on a five week course... after a couple hundred years of service I might get EEE...
 
1. Anglos are not provided as much official opportunity to learn and retain SL through their careers administratively.

Regards
G2G

Which is all part of the plan, I assume, to socially engineer the CAF so that an outsized proportion of Francos have an advantage over Anglos, despite their levels of leadership competence.

I wonder how that kind of officially sanctioned career nepotism adversely impacts other aspects of organizational culture?

Oh wait, what's this? ;)


NEPOTISM AS A CAUSE AND CONSEQUENCE OF UNHEALTHY
ORGANIZATIONAL CULTURE

Abstract
Nepotism is analysed in the article in the context of unhealthy
organizational culture. In order to clarify the concept of the connections of
nepotism as a management anomaly with unhealthy organizational culture, the
hypotheses, which are tested by correlation analysis and t-test methods, are
formulated. The research has shown the close interrelationship between
nepotism and unhealthy organizational culture.

Keywords: nepotism, unhealthy organizational culture, management
anomaly, causes and consequences of nepotism.

Introduction

Relevance of the research. Nepotism is a natural social phenomenon, but
it threatens to become a management anomaly in an organization. Although the
phenomenon is regulated in the public sector organizations, the freedom of
treatment of the phenomenon remains an object of debate (see: Vveinhardt,
2012a, 2013). Nepotism is usually perceived as protecting a relative or a friend,
i.e., it is invested not in productivity, but in the cluster based on family
connections. The quality of human resources in activities of both public and
private sector organizations becomes risky, as the management processes are
affected by subjective criteria, emploвees’ interpersonal relationships are
destroyed. Nepotism is often inseparable from favouritism and protectionism,
which are described quite differently, but protection of someone’s own cluster
becomes their common denominator. In order to improve management of the
organizations both formalised and unformalised ethical evaluation of the
phenomena, refining the values, and formation and development of the culture,
unfavourable to unfair decisions, are necessary. The phenomena of nepotism,
favouritism and protectionism are related, capable of existing side by side, and
together lead to unfair managerial decisions. There is no doubt that there is a
connection between nepotism and organizational culture. Nepotism is a dual
organizational-management anomaly, affecting organizational culture, and is a
consequence of sick organizational culture (see: Vveinhardt, Petrauskaitė, 2013a,
2013d), however, empirical studies are needed to substantiate these relations.
Problem of the research is set by the question how strongly nepotism
refers to organizational culture?

 
Maybe the CAF could shutter RMC and use the space to get serious about second language training.
Won't work. I was on a 10 month course in Pet in 85, and as I understood it then, it was to try and run a course without posting/IR anyone to save dollars.
Problem was after the day in class was done, everyone would go home to their English friends and family. I was the only one on the course to score "full bilingual " marks when it was done.
Why me? Because I met a girl who didn't speak English and we started dating. (eventually married)

I had to ask her out by showing her a note from my teacher and for 3 months we communicated with a phrase book. When she moved to Montreal I went every weekend and spoke it everywhere I went.

IMO, if you're not immersed in the language/culture, you're not going to learn it properly. You might learn Google app translation like a robot but not the idiosyncrasies.
 
SL is very NCR centric, as is the testing. They C isn't what the majority of leaders need to be able to converse with their troops. Its so an individual can sound pretentious around the other EXs, speaking bureaucratic French. I sometimes think that the equivalent should be to expect Francophones to speak Shakespearean English to be able to be exempt.
A few guys I worked with gave me a Qc French version of 'Slap shot' which helped.

A more PC version would be some of the dialogue on Shoresy, where you need to be bilingual to actually follow whats going on, but also now helpfully comes with Qc French subtitles, which is hilarious when they are chirping each other.
 
As a « tête-carrée originaire de Toronto » with an EEC SL-rating (I joined with a 4343, for those who remember the old system - I have enjoyed learning and conversing in French since well before joining the CAF - one of my Ontario Gr.13 honour credits in fact was in French Grammar, so I’m not one of those ‘why should I have to learn and use French, kind of people), I certainly did, and that was even though my unit was a designated ELU. In fact, I pressed to have my unit designated a BU, which eventually happened. Squadron members felt very comfortable approaching me in their FOL, which I strongly encouraged, and they did so regularly.

I see two major issues with the CAF’s SLE program:

1. Anglos are not provided as much official opportunity to learn and retain SL through their careers administratively. I lost track of how many times I was told a course wasn’t available for me - a pre-Command ECC (at the time) Anglo trying to upgrade/improve gets no love from the SLE system, and that isn’t the only “sorry [rank] Angloggins, nothing avail for you at this time” situation I saw over my career. It was only being appointed to command that I finally [after about a 15-years dearth of SLE opportunities] (re)qualified for SL training/coaching. If levels are going to be mandated, then the system must provide equitable opportunities for both FOL groups to receive SL training opportunities, not be biased to one group of another based on ‘well they have a tougher time since so many others use the other language.’; and

2. I firmly believe the evaluations of SL capability are not equitable between French and English. I have lost track of how many times I tested for oral expression and was told I was ‘one mark short of an E’…on my last test, my instructor couldn’t believe that I tested out (again) with a C. She even recommended that I ask for a formal re-assessment, but I have been down that road before, and if even to make a point, I chose to be done with it…if testing was ever needed again, I could repeat a C in my sleep, so I chose not to fight for the EEE. I’ve spoken with Francos who had an E and if they spoke the same way as an Anglo testing in French, would have had a C or even just a B.

The point of training in « la langue maternelle » would be a reasonable point, if the member was going to spend an entire career in an FLU with no expectation/possibility of posting to an ELU, let alone the reality that many of those FLUs conduct work in English by choice, even though there’s a full set of French MBs in the tech library/Maint shop. Tech vocabulary courses are intended to bridge member linguistic capabilities to support training thereafter on fleets where the majority of activity occurs in English, because, as you noted, even in France, (and ICAO HQ in Montréal), English is the international language of aviation.

Regards
G2G
I was taught and flew in French in France. So did my American counterparts.
 
Great for you. Mostly detrimental to the vast majority of the CAF. FFS.
Please explain. There were francophone instructors in Moose Jaw when I went through, yet we had to interact in English for instruction. How would it be detrimental to others if the curriculum were in French too?
 
Won't work. I was on a 10 month course in Pet in 85, and as I understood it then, it was to try and run a course without posting/IR anyone to save dollars.
Problem was after the day in class was done, everyone would go home to their English friends and family. I was the only one on the course to score "full bilingual " marks when it was done.
Why me? Because I met a girl who didn't speak English and we started dating. (eventually married)

I had to ask her out by showing her a note from my teacher and for 3 months we communicated with a phrase book. When she moved to Montreal I went every weekend and spoke it everywhere I went.

IMO, if you're not immersed in the language/culture, you're not going to learn it properly. You might learn Google app translation like a robot but not the idiosyncrasies.
10 months learning every day is better than the nothing most CAF members get... If people won't use the language outside the classroom that's on them, but doing next to nothing(status quo) is not working well either.

The CAF pretends it cares about bilingualism, while making next to zero effort to train members.
 
If its as important as you claim then we should actually make it a mandatory requirement for the whole of the CAF and teach it from cradle to grave for everyone's career. Like a fitness test or the range. But we wont do that will we ? Because that would take a ridiculous amount of time and resources.
Teaching functional French to everyone would take 4 months per member, based on the proven and well-established model of the French Foreign Legion. It could be done. But we’d have to collectively take that training deadly seriously, which we don’t.
 
Please explain. There were francophone instructors in Moose Jaw when I went through, yet we had to interact in English for instruction. How would it be detrimental to others if the curriculum were in French too?
Please reflect. You look at life, and your lived experiences, through the narrow, and elitist lens, of a pilot.
 
Teaching functional French to everyone would take 4 months per member, based on the proven and well-established model of the French Foreign Legion. It could be done. But we’d have to collectively take that training deadly seriously, which we don’t.
Singing while marching and savage beatings! A proven model!
 
I was taught and flew in French in France. So did my American counterparts.
EPNER is a rather unique example to be using un-qualified, as though it was an “everyone flying in France speaks French, even the Americans.”
 
Please reflect. You look at life, and your lived experiences, through the narrow, and elitist lens, of a pilot.
I can guarantee you that many other people in different trades think the same. It has nothing to do with elitism.
 
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