Op IMPACT: CAF in the Iraq & Syria crisis

[Eye In The Sky]

Random question, but if someone with a GCS-SWA already goes over, do they then get a bar on their GCS for this Op and a GSM?

If they spend 30 days in Iraq (1 sortie = 1 day for zoomies), they will get the GCS-Exp.  If they deploy to IMPACT but do not go into the actual theatre, they will get the GSM-Exp after 30 days.  Aircrew who fly 29 or less missions will get the GSM-Exp provided they were deployed 30 days or more.

General Campaign Star – EXPEDITION (GCS-EXP)

The only approved eligible service for this ribbon thus far is military service within the political boundaries and airspace of Iraq from 20 January 2003 onwards...As of 1 June 2012, 9 awards had been made.   [Syria was added in a CANFORGEN last year]

Guess they need to make up a few more of these.

General Service Medal – EXPEDITION (GSM-EXP)

OP Impact - Kuwait base locations were added to the eligibility list for the GSM-Exp in the same CANFORGEN last year.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Is there an Op IMPACT or Iraq Bar?

Just rotation bars; anyone who has/gets a GSC-Exp has either been in Iraq, or Iraq and Syria.  There's no other way to get the Exp ninja star.

I feel for anyone in light blue who comes out with a bar on this one though.  210 mission is a LOT of time away from your postal code.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Thanks - that is all quite clear.

 

[Sub_Guy]

If they spend 30 days in Iraq (1 sortie = 1 day for zoomies), they will get the GCS-Exp.  If they deploy to IMPACT but do not go into the actual theatre, they will get the GSM-Exp after 30 days.  Aircrew who fly 29 or less missions will get the GSM-Exp provided they were deployed 30 days or more.

I wish they would rework this formula.  The 1 sortie = 1 day calculation.  It took almost 3 months to get 30 flights and I bet the bulk of the guys/gals delivering presents to those asshats didn't get their 30.

 

[PuckChaser]

As opposed to those sitting in country for 6 months that wouldn't be entitled to a rotation bar (need 6 months after initial 30: days to qualify), or even a second medal?

 

[Quirky]

Nice to see people that came into a setup camp are receiving their medals. Meanwhile roto zeros that built everything from the ground up have seen squat.  :

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I wish they would rework this formula.  The 1 sortie = 1 day calculation.  It took almost 3 months to get 30 flights and I bet the bulk of the guys/gals delivering presents to those asshats didn't get their 30.

Ya, considering all the factors, the 30 doesn't seem right considering who was doing what on their missions.  If someone did 28 airstrike missions, half of them in Syria, they wouldn't get a ninja star.  Doesn't seem to accurately reflect 'mission contributions', does it?

In comparison to the GCS-Exp, there is the General Campaign Star – ALLIED FORCE (GCS-AF):

The GCS with ALLIED FORCE ribbon is awarded to fighter pilots and AWACS crew members who flew at least 5 sorties during Operation ALLIED FORCE from 24 March to 10 June 1999 in the theatre of operations which consisted of the airspace over Kosovo and other territories of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, Albania, the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia and the Adriatic and Ionian seas.

As opposed to those sitting in country for 6 months that wouldn't be entitled to a rotation bar (need 6 months after initial 30: days to qualify), or even a second medal?

This as well.  There will be some folks who get the GSM with rotation bar from doing a single ROTO (I know a few who did) but I don't think the rotation bar requirements will change.  210 days is a lot of time, it's even more time for aircrew who have to do 210 sorties/missions.  Someone could do 6 ROTOs, max their hours out each ROTO and still not qualify for a 'rotation bar'.  So, the name 'rotation' bar does not seem to fit IMO. 

Nice to see people that came into a setup camp are receiving their medals. Meanwhile roto zeros that built everything from the ground up have seen squat.  :

I hear ya.  I don't know what the method to the madness is WRT this.  I've heard of some ROTO 1 and 2 LRP Det folks getting the GSM already, while ROTO 0 folks haven't seen it.  I don't know of a single GCS being given yet to the guys who were boots on the ground Oct 14.

I know of at least 1 pers who has their 3rd ROTO in their log book and...nadda.  Log book copies weren't requested until well after a year into the op.

Not that gongs are the most important thing, I know, BUT folks should also have their contribution recognized in a timely manner;  it is supposed to be the whole reason for the Honours system isn't it?

 

[exgunnertdo]

I hear ya.  I don't know what the method to the madness is WRT this.  I've heard of some ROTO 1 and 2 LRP Det folks getting the GSM already, while ROTO 0 folks haven't seen it.  I don't know of a single GCS being given yet to the guys who were boots on the ground Oct 14.

I know of at least 1 pers who has their 3rd ROTO in their log book and...nadda.  Log book copies weren't requested until well after a year into the op.

Not that gongs are the most important thing, I know, BUT folks should also have their contribution recognized in a timely manner;  it is supposed to be the whole reason for the Honours system isn't it?

I do know the logic, at least what I was told by a R0 coworker who asked when he saw a R1 guy on Nov 11 wearing his GSM - medals ordered from theatre take priority over medals ordered from Canada.  They didn't announce the medals until R0 was home, so they've been ordered by the members' ORs.  So, R0 will keep getting pushed down as new orders from theatre come in...as to how long it will take them to catch up? who knows...

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That seems more like a lack of logic to me; someone at a higher level needs to speak up and say "hey, we dropped the ball on the RO guys, so let's make this happen". 

 

[exgunnertdo]

Never said it was good logic!

 

[Ostrozac]

That seems more like a lack of logic to me; someone at a higher level needs to speak up and say "hey, we dropped the ball on the RO guys, so let's make this happen".

Logic doesn't come into it. Nor does timeliness. Op HALO was in 2004, Op SCULPTURE started in 2000 -- the Operational Service Medals for both missions didn't start being awarded until 2010. Being a couple rotos behind pales in comparison.

And why are we even issuing "GCS/GSM-EXPEDITION" for this war? Isn't "EXPEDITION" supposed to be a generic catch all for small missions? Iraq-Syria seems like a pretty specific large multi-year campaign to me. Wouldn't an GCS/GSM-IRAQ-SYRIA make more sense for this current war? Or maybe an "IRAQ-SYRIA" bar to the SWASM?

We keep tinkering with our Honours and Awards systems, but the cracks keep showing through.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Logic doesn't come into it. Nor does timeliness. Op HALO was in 2004, Op SCULPTURE started in 2000 -- the Operational Service Medals for both missions didn't start being awarded until 2010. Being a couple rotos behind pales in comparison.

I never see the reason for using an example of something that was done shitty as a reason to justify doing the current 'thing' shitty as well. 

And why are we even issuing "GCS/GSM-EXPEDITION" for this war? Isn't "EXPEDITION" supposed to be a generic catch all for small missions? Iraq-Syria seems like a pretty specific large multi-year campaign to me. Wouldn't an GCS/GSM-IRAQ-SYRIA make more sense for this current war? Or maybe an "IRAQ-SYRIA" bar to the SWASM?

Nope, the GSC-Exp is very specific for criteria; perhaps the naming was done more to avoid using GSC-Iraq or GSC-ME? [the DH & R website is not updated with the info in the 2015 CANFORGEN]

The only approved eligible service for this ribbon thus far is military service within the political boundaries and airspace of Iraq from 20 January 2003 onwards provided the service has not been recognized by another service medal.


The website info on the GSM-Exp:

The only approved eligible service for this ribbon thus far is service of Canadian personnel in support of Operation IRAQI FREEDOM, more specifically Canadian Detachment AWACS, USAF Air Expeditionary Wing, Prince Sultan Air Base, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, since 27 February 2003 onwards provided the service has not been recognized by another service medal.

People associate the GCS-SWA to Afghanistan.  A separate ribbon and medal makes sense for IMPACT.  Apples and oranges.

Maybe you're thinking more of the Operational Service Medal – EXPEDITION (OSM-EXP)?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Logic doesn't come into it. Nor does timeliness. Op HALO was in 2004, Op SCULPTURE started in 2000 -- the Operational Service Medals for both missions didn't start being awarded until 2010. Being a couple rotos behind pales in comparison.

And why are we even issuing "GCS/GSM-EXPEDITION" for this war? Isn't "EXPEDITION" supposed to be a generic catch all for small missions? Iraq-Syria seems like a pretty specific large multi-year campaign to me. Wouldn't an GCS/GSM-IRAQ-SYRIA make more sense for this current war? Or maybe an "IRAQ-SYRIA" bar to the SWASM?

We keep tinkering with our Honours and Awards systems, but the cracks keep showing through.

Exactly my thoughts.  The EXP was designed for smaller missions, which made sense for the AWACS guys (they awarded 9 before this mission).  But this is a full on mission.  I think they are being lazy.  I do know the JTF-I CO (or whoever it was) did request an exclusive ribbon for this mission (as told by the JTF-I commander on my roto).

The explanation for the medal even specifies that it is a generic catch all.  From the honours website  "The EXPEDITION ribbon was created at the same time to provide a flexible tool of recognition for operations for which it is not possible or practical to create a separate ribbon."    I believe the CANFORGEN description is a little different.

When this was awarded for Iraq, I bet no one thought we would be there in the capacity that we are now.

Going back to the rotation/sorties days that count, I firmly believe that the decision was made by someone who never took into consideration the RCAF fliers.  15 Missions should be the norm for the GCS.

At least the fliers who are awarded the GCS, should be picking up their GSM on the subsequent rotations.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I never see the reason for using an example of something that was done shitty as a reason to justify doing the current 'thing' shitty as well. 

Well, there goes all administrative and operational planning at NDHQ  ;D

 

[Sub_Guy]

Here a snip from the CANFORGEN

(3) EXPEDITION RIBBONS TO THE GSC AND GSM ARE CREATED TO PROVIDE A FLEXIBLE FORM OF RECOGNITION FOR THOSE MISSIONS CONDUCTED IN THE PRESENCE OF AN ARMED ENEMY, OR SUPPORT PROVIDED TO SUCH MISSIONS, AND FOR WHICH SIZE OR SCOPE DOES NOT JUSTIFY THE CREATION OF A SEPARATE RIBBON.

 

[dapaterson]

It is not impossible that a new ribbon will be created in the future, then presented retroactively to those who received the EXPEDITION ribbon.

Would you rather get recognition now (with possible changes in the future), or wait months or years?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Would you rather get recognition now (with possible changes in the future), or wait months or years?

Being the cynical asshole I am.... I expedt to be waiting for years anyway..  Yes to do agree through, better now than later.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

There is no requirement for a new ribbon.

The only approved eligible service for this ribbon thus far is military service within the political boundaries and airspace of Iraq from 20 January 2003 onwards provided the service has not been recognized by another service medal.


They are already handing out GSM-Exps.  The ribbon is fine, they are already using it.  The CANFORGEN already includes OP IMPACT.  Stop trying to make a round wheel roll different, the GCS-Exp is fine just like the GSM-Exp is.

Fuck, why do people insist on making simple shit complicated.

 

[Good2Golf]

Decades of doing things the UN way, perhaps?

They always do a separate medal for each mission...mind you, that's the UN, so we shouldn't exactly try to emulate that... :nod:

Cheers
G2G

 

[Sub_Guy]

There is no requirement for a new ribbon.

The only approved eligible service for this ribbon thus far is military service within the political boundaries and airspace of Iraq from 20 January 2003 onwards provided the service has not been recognized by another service medal.


They are already handing out GSM-Exps.  The ribbon is fine, they are already using it.  The CANFORGEN already includes OP IMPACT.  Stop trying to make a round wheel roll different, the GCS-Exp is fine just like the GSM-Exp is.

frig, why do people insist on making simple crap complicated.

Because it's fun.


Yes they approved the EXP medal for the airspace over Iraq back in 2003, but I would argue that if it wasn’t authorized for those 9 individuals prior to Op Impact, we would have a different ribbon.
Go back to 2003 and mention Canadians flying over Iraq/Syria, people would lose their minds.

I really don't care either way, but I wouldn't be surprised if things changed. 

My point is that I don't think Op Impact is the type of mission the EXP ribbon was designed for.