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On the Toxicity of the ‘Warrior’ Ethos

KevinB

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Paradoxically, I think we can trace the beginning of the 'dumbing down' of the militia back to the introduction of this program where the main focus of alot of our training was on continually testing for the most basic skills.
Having conducted Warrior Testing for several militia units, they didn’t even seem to have a lot of those ‘most basic skills’ at the field grade and SNCO level.

For one thing, it removed the incentive for Officers and NCOs to design and lead more complex training/ tactics as no one was being measured and judged on anything except things like how well an already well trained trained NCM did on the TOETs for the C7.
Crawl, Walk, Run.

I’ll be honest I saw a lot of Capt’s and MWO who couldn’t load a C7 mag or conduct any safe handling — or put on a gas mask or even run for half the time of the Warrior Jog.



No one gave a crap if I trained up my platoons to conduct high quality platoon attacks or ambushes and, anyways, the small amount of training time we had available got gobbled up by getting ready for the 'Great Kindergarten Test' as I called it.
See my point on Crawl - Walk - Run
Some units wanted to Run when most of their troops (and leaders) could not even crawl.

To me the entire Warrior Training, Warrior Badge exposed that the Militia was broken.
 

daftandbarmy

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Having conducted Warrior Testing for several militia units, they didn’t even seem to have a lot of those ‘most basic skills’ at the field grade and SNCO level.


Crawl, Walk, Run.

I’ll be honest I saw a lot of Capt’s and MWO who couldn’t load a C7 mag or conduct any safe handling — or put on a gas mask or even run for half the time of the Warrior Jog.




See my point on Crawl - Walk - Run
Some units wanted to Run when most of their troops (and leaders) could not even crawl.

To me the entire Warrior Training, Warrior Badge exposed that the Militia was broken.


And, thus, the monumentally ironic misuse of the word 'Warrior'. Call it what it is: basic skills testing, or something like that.

I assume this is where we started the institutional misuse of the word.

As I recall, one of the humiliations of the Warrior program involved demonstrating the ability to heat and consume an IMP meal. One of my MCpls came out with the 'to this day cherished' gem: 'I thought that Warriors were supposed to be able to drink from the skulls of their vanquished foes?'
 

Jarnhamar

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We use it as clever brain washing.

Warriors show up for work early, work through lunch, and stay late after work (and don't expect to be compensated)
Warriors don't complain about being asked to do more with less.
Warriors don't complain about missing family milestones.
Warriors always put mission before self.
 

KevinB

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And, thus, the monumentally ironic misuse of the word 'Warrior'. Call it what it is: basic skills testing, or something like that.
No argument here
I assume this is where we started the institutional misuse of the word.

As I recall, one of the humiliations of the Warrior program involved demonstrating the ability to heat and consume an IMP meal. One of my MCpls came out with the 'to this day cherished' gem: 'I thought that Warriors were supposed to be able to drink from the skulls of their vanquished foes?'
At the end of the day, it was simply a poor poor copy of the EIB from down here...
Which IMHO was also very unwarrior ish -- simply designed to make those who didn't have CIB's feel better.

Perhaps Combat Skills Test would have been a better name, but hey Warrior Badge was free, probably as no one else wanted it ;)
 

daftandbarmy

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We use it as clever brain washing.

Warriors show up for work early, work through lunch, and stay late after work (and don't expect to be compensated)
Warriors don't complain about being asked to do more with less.
Warriors don't complain about missing family milestones.
Warriors always put mission before self.

And it's all about 'Honour Culture' which, unfortunately, we've sometimes seen rearing its ugly head in the CAF these days :)


Soldiers and Warriors

In an honor culture, you see, the behaviors of individuals are driven almost exclusively by the need to gain and then to protect, their personal honor. Honor is seen as not necessarily being the product of living a decent life, as it is here in the West. Instead, in an honor culture honor is seen as a commodity. Honor is an almost material thing which must be accumulated. It can only be won by action. And because it is a commodity, it can also be taken away. In both cases this is an individual's responsibility, he must gather honor as he can, and he must defend both his own honor and the honor of his family.

Thus, in an honor culture if your daughter or your sister have "brought dishonor" to your family, you could see it as a taking away of some of that commodity. In several honor-based cultures it is then up to the males in the family (those charged with defending that family honor) to collect the honor back, quite often by killing those who took the honor away.

Similarly, if you are a male in such a society and an individual has done something which seems to slight your honor, you have to try to kill him to defend that honor. This also means that, in a military context, discipline, organization and coordination and cooperation are much less valued than is, say, personal courage shown in the face of danger. (Think of the Native American warrior practice known as "counting coup.") This is because there is no honor to be collected from doing good maintenance or performing well as a team.

Only individual feats and acts can bring honor, and those must be witnessed, and this is what motivates the "warrior." That is the difference between "warriors" and "soldiers," and I am damned glad that I am one of the latter. Now if somebody would just tell the generals.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/inteldump/2008/09/soldiers_and_warriors.html
 

Halifax Tar

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I had to laugh when I saw the "Home of the Logistician Warrior" at CFLTC being posted online. Like... my Corps is full of nerds, and that's even too geeky for me...

On the Army side my branch is very much infested with remusters or failed combat arms types who forever long for those organizations.

Remember, no one out armys the army like a SVC Bn.
 

rmc_wannabe

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On the Army side my branch is very much infested with remusters or failed combat arms types who forever long for those organizations.

Remember, no one out armys the army like a SVC Bn.
Having done my time at 1 Svc Bn, I will agree completely. I did more Sigfantry tasks with them than when I was with 3 RCR.
 

Halifax Tar

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Having done my time at 1 Svc Bn, I will agree completely. I did more Sigfantry tasks with them than when I was with 3 RCR.

I spent 6 years and two Afg deployments with Army. I'm in an Arny CBG HQ right now. I learned alot, truly.

I also observed that's one big penis measuring contest. Especially in the CS and CSS trades.

The importance of Logistics is well established. I'm not sure why so many feel inferior.
 

Colin Parkinson

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And it's all about 'Honour Culture' which, unfortunately, we've sometimes seen rearing its ugly head in the CAF these days :)


Soldiers and Warriors

In an honor culture, you see, the behaviors of individuals are driven almost exclusively by the need to gain and then to protect, their personal honor. Honor is seen as not necessarily being the product of living a decent life, as it is here in the West. Instead, in an honor culture honor is seen as a commodity. Honor is an almost material thing which must be accumulated. It can only be won by action. And because it is a commodity, it can also be taken away. In both cases this is an individual's responsibility, he must gather honor as he can, and he must defend both his own honor and the honor of his family.

Thus, in an honor culture if your daughter or your sister have "brought dishonor" to your family, you could see it as a taking away of some of that commodity. In several honor-based cultures it is then up to the males in the family (those charged with defending that family honor) to collect the honor back, quite often by killing those who took the honor away.

Similarly, if you are a male in such a society and an individual has done something which seems to slight your honor, you have to try to kill him to defend that honor. This also means that, in a military context, discipline, organization and coordination and cooperation are much less valued than is, say, personal courage shown in the face of danger. (Think of the Native American warrior practice known as "counting coup.") This is because there is no honor to be collected from doing good maintenance or performing well as a team.

Only individual feats and acts can bring honor, and those must be witnessed, and this is what motivates the "warrior." That is the difference between "warriors" and "soldiers," and I am damned glad that I am one of the latter. Now if somebody would just tell the generals.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/inteldump/2008/09/soldiers_and_warriors.html
or people who emulate Spartan culture which was based on slavery and abuse of others so they could remain free to pursue their honour culture commitments. I suspect a Greek Phalanx could have held Thermopylae with a little prep just as well.
 

rmc_wannabe

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I spent 6 years and two Afg deployments with Army. I'm in an Arny CBG HQ right now. I learned alot, truly.

I also observed that's one big penis measuring contest. Especially in the CS and CSS trades.

The importance of Logistics is well established. I'm not sure why so many feel inferior.
I think its a hold over from how much time we spent working with our southern cousins in AFG. They wear their inadequacy on their chest in the form of CIBs, CABs, and "battle stars." It's bleeds into our institutional fabric, like this "warrior/warfighter" nonsense.

My first day at M Coy 3 RCR, the OC made very clear to me that the person I was replacing would've made a great infantry soldier, but he was a terrible Jimmy. He told me with absolute frankness that he wanted a master tradesman who wouldn't get in the way, rather than a Siggie with delusions of grandeur. I was happy to oblige and ran with that direction and guidance. I did my best at my job, supported the hell out of the Coy, and it was appreciated by all the dudes I supported.

This all falls off the rails when you get a lot of CFRG types who either fudge the reality of the trades to try and sell it, or, the ones who have no idea what the trade involves but give the ol' "Well its an Army trade...so... hooah?"
 

medicineman

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But Navy cooks, OTOH ;)
i see what you did there bill hader GIF
 

Humphrey Bogart

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On the Army side my branch is very much infested with remusters or failed combat arms types who forever long for those organizations.

Remember, no one out armys the army like a SVC Bn.
I can think of one Log Officer in particular whose social media posts would make one think they were some sort of tactical gangster operator.

I have a chuckle every time they make a post about something. Particularly because they were a QM of an Infantry Battalion and I remember the time they had there 😁
 

Brad Sallows

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Honor is seen as not necessarily being the product of living a decent life, as it is here in the West. Instead, in an honor culture honor is seen as a commodity. Honor is an almost material thing which must be accumulated. It can only be won by action.

Echoes of Bwana Dik. (I'll let those who are curious look that up for themselves.)
 

daftandbarmy

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I think its a hold over from how much time we spent working with our southern cousins in AFG. They wear their inadequacy on their chest in the form of CIBs, CABs, and "battle stars." It's bleeds into our institutional fabric, like this "warrior/warfighter" nonsense.

My first day at M Coy 3 RCR, the OC made very clear to me that the person I was replacing would've made a great infantry soldier, but he was a terrible Jimmy. He told me with absolute frankness that he wanted a master tradesman who wouldn't get in the way, rather than a Siggie with delusions of grandeur. I was happy to oblige and ran with that direction and guidance. I did my best at my job, supported the hell out of the Coy, and it was appreciated by all the dudes I supported.

This all falls off the rails when you get a lot of CFRG types who either fudge the reality of the trades to try and sell it, or, the ones who have no idea what the trade involves but give the ol' "Well its an Army trade...so... hooah?"

1661749836822.png
 

Halifax Tar

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I can think of one Log Officer in particular whose social media posts would make one think they were some sort of tactical gangster operator.

I have a chuckle every time they make a post about something. Particularly because they were a QM of an Infantry Battalion and I remember the time they had there 😁

Ya I know people who do similar things. I know a guy, who to this day, posts fake pics of himself in AFG.

Its funny, I find the dynamic very different in the RCN with regard to Log NCM trades.
 

Good2Golf

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or people who emulate Spartan culture which was based on slavery and abuse of others so they could remain free to pursue their honour culture commitments. I suspect a Greek Phalanx could have held Thermopylae with a little prep just as well.
I blame King Xerxes I for this. If he had followed through with his threats, then we wouldn’t have had Hollywood making movies like 300…
 
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