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Official: British troops freed in jailbreak (????)

Lost_Warrior

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Can anyone make sense of this story?  2 British troops dressed as militants open fire on a crowed.  British armoured vehicles jail brake them?  Am I reading this right?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/09/19/iraq.main/index.html

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A British armored vehicle escorted by a tank crashed into a detention center Monday in Basra and rescued two undercover troops held by police, an Iraqi Interior Ministry official told CNN.

British Defense Ministry Secretary John Reid confirmed two British military personnel were "released," but he gave no details on how they were freed.

In a statement released in London, Reid did not say why the two had been taken into custody. But the Iraqi official, who spoke to CNN on condition of anonymity, said their arrests stemmed from an incident earlier in the day.

The official said two unknown gunmen in full Arabic dress began firing on civilians in central Basra, wounding several, including a traffic police officer. There were no fatalities, the official said.

The two gunmen fled the scene but were captured and taken in for questioning, admitting they were British marines carrying out a "special security task," the official said.

British troops launched the rescue about three hours after Iraqi authorities informed British commanders the men were being held at the police department's major crime unit, the official said.

Iraqi police said members of Iraq's Mehdi Army militia engaged the British forces around the facility, burning one personnel carrier and an armored vehicle.

Video showed dozens of Iraqis surrounding British armored vehicles and tossing gasoline bombs, rocks and other debris at them.

With one vehicle engulfed in flames, a soldier opened the hatch and bailed out as rocks were thrown at him. Another photograph showed a British soldier on fire on top of a tank.

"Many of those present were clearly prepared well in advance to cause trouble, and we believe that the majority of Iraq people would deplore this violence," Reid said.

Reid said both troops were "being treated for minor injuries only and are expected to return to duty shortly."

He said British forces "remain committed to helping the Iraqi government for as long as they judge that a coalition presence is necessary to provide security.

"The situation in Basra is currently calmer after a day of disturbances. At this stage, it is not possible to be certain why these disturbances began," he said.
 
Your CNN version is as confusing as the BBC version. It sounds like the SBS are confusing Basra with Belfast in the Eighties or some insurgents were spotted in the crowd.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4262336.stm
 
Oh ghad Sir call out the Guard!! ;)
Yup I agree with you Tom.
It's time when they ask you to leave, you leave and no questions asked the only reason they are staying in Basrah is because it's the only port open to the sea,I was there in early 73 on a Norwegian ship unloading wheat from Keybeck and if they leave the Iranians will take over the water way from the head of the Gulf and will control the Shat al Arab and the confluences of the Tigress and Euphrates Rivers and isolate Iraq from the sea and only leave her with access from UmQasar on the border with Kuwait.

Er Sea lanes are coming into play. ;)
 
A little bit of clarity:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000102&sid=apPCzQOdg7t4&refer=uk

"Two British soldiers arrested by Iraqi police in Basra, and freed when troops stormed a house where they were being held, had been turned over to a Shiite Muslim militia, the U.K. military said today.

The soldiers were detained yesterday at a police station in the southern port city before being handed over to the militia, John Lorimer, commander of the U.K.'s 12th Mechanized Brigade, said in a statement e-mailed by the Defence Ministry in London. The police jail was stormed by British troops on Lorimer's order, before it became clear the soldiers had already been moved to a house, he said. The house was then raided, he said. "

Agree with Spr. Earl:  if they give you your hat, it's time to go...



 
from troops on the ground right now: the "police" in Basra and surroundings are part and parcel of the Mehdi militia. Saddam's executioner is a local instructor at the "Police Academy" near Basra. Soldiers were removed from the "Police" station and transferred to a Mehdi militia safehouse, from which they were sprung.

Local "cop" in a known enemy area was shot by highly-trained SpecOps dude - common sense leads one to believe the Operator, not the criminal with a badge, and most certainly not the media.
 
Good result.

Lets not forget what happened to the six RMP who ended up trapped in an Iraqi police station, nor what happend to the two R SIGNALS Cpls who were handed over to the IRA in Belfast.

The Iraqi police were obliged to hand the men over to the British Army, and were so ordered to by the Iraqi government.  They declined to do so.

The men were then moved from the police sation to  house, where it is thought that they were likely to be handed over to the militants.

At this point the only option left is get stuck in and get them out.

Of course I wonder how many of these so called "human rights" lawyers are going to be complaining about the British Army trashing the local police when they police fail to obey the law themselves.  I expect Blair's bitch to make yet another adverse comment.
 
The Brits are supposed to be vetting who is in the police just as the US has done in its area. If there is a failure in this regard its on the Brits. No question that the Mehdi Army is firmly entrenched in Basra. Sadr's Iranian handlers have redirected him from Najaf to Basra which would be a very strong position for him in any face off with the Iraqi government. The Mehdi Army does not represent the majority of the people just the minority that wants close ties with Iran.
 
See if I have got this right:

Brits have allowed or been unable to prevent the Basra police and governorship falling into the hands of locals that are either sponsored by, sympathetic to or just looking for allies in Iran

Violence has been escalating

Brits have been killed by Iraqis dressed in police uniforms

Brits arrest a local militia leader and a couple of buddies in a car loaded with military paraphernalia
The Iraqi Governor and the militia cry foul and demand they be released

The Brits decline

Meanwhile two undercover Brits riding in a car a pulled over for speeding by local constabulary

They decline to be arrested

Shots are exchanged

They are captured anyway

Brits take a Company Team of Coldstreams in Landrovers Backed up by Warriors to secure their release

They are opposed by a rent a mob of 500 - many of them 12 year olds of the Gaza Cader Corps - slinging molotovs

In the event a Warrior inadvertently punches a whole in the wall and 150 prisoners escape - not including the 2 troops they were looking for

Brits retire

2 troops they were looking for later recovered in a separate raid on a local safehouse.

Cock-ups and successess all round - par for the course.


On the other hand this may prompt action on the part of the Brits - it has been suggested that the Brits were going easy on the local militants to avoid upsetting Iran while the nuclear discussions were ongoing.  This has had the effect of upsetting the local citizenry who are as upset as anybody at this bunch of Revolutionary Guard clones taking over their police.

Speculation now has it that given the collapse of talks (new Iraqi President and perhaps related to Franco/German politics) and  referral of the issue to the Security Council, that Tony Blair may be willing to start clearing up in Basra.  Having said that some reports indicate that local ground commanders mounted this foray without reference to higher.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1788850,00.html

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1788849,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1788585,00.html
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,1,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/20/wirq20.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/09/20/ixnewstop.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/09/20/uiraq1.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/09/20/ixportaltop.html

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005430611,00.html
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005410790,00.html

As the official army report says - a small assault by 200 to 500 bodies, many of them young boys judging by pictures, in a city of 1,500,000 - does not an insurgency make.  Its gang warfare on a grand scale, with a hostile and corrupted police department. 

Locals have been asking the Brits to come the grips with this mob for over a year now.

Time may finally, hopefully, run out.
 
Look! A Captured C8!... :crybaby: :)

2005_09_20t104638_450x364_us_iraq.jpg

r4254374837.jpg

2005_09_20t104605_450x367_us_iraq.jpg

r2128826547.jpg

A grab from footage released on September 20, 2005 shows weapons which Iraqi police said were confiscated from two undercover British soldiers after their arrest in Basra, southern Iraq, September 19, 2005. Britain sent in troops to free the two soldiers after discovering they had been handed over by Iraqi police to local militia, the army said on Tuesday. IRAQ OUT NO SALES NO ARCHIVE REUTERS/Al-Iraqiya via Reuters television
 
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/taylor200508250810.asp

Article which sheds some light on the situation in southern Iraq.
 
tomahawk6,
No offence, but that National Review article is a pretty nuanced and opinionated piece.

I think from our perspective it's very hard to have any idea of what's going on the ground. If I were to talk to the British NCOs they'd tell one story, and the officers something else. If I were to talk to a cross-section of Basra residents I'd probably get a fair range of opinions faulting anyone from the Brits/Americans to the Sadrists or Iranians. Any guesses as to where the balance of opinion would be?  It's all about what is percieved to be true as that guides peoples' actions.

It's easy enough to think that killing Sadr would solve the problems in the South, but this war seems to be enough of a  lesson in unintended consequences as it is. The mere fact that the IP arrested the Brits tells me that something has gone pretty pear-shaped in the relationship between the coalition and the police they are meant to be supporting/training. Time to go.
 
The mere fact that the IP arrested the Brits tells me that something has gone pretty pear-shaped in the relationship between the coalition and the police they are meant to be supporting/training.

Probably true.

Time to go.

Plain wrong.

This is not a 6 month in and out game any more than Afghanistan is.  Hillier and Leslie are right there.  It is a matter of generations.  So it is in Iraq.

There are good people all over the place that just want a chance to live peacefully.  They won't get that chance any time soon if others, like ourselves and the Brits, Yanks, Aussies, Poles, Indians.....don't step in and give them a leg up.

Of course the folks that succeed in the absence of laws are going to squawk.  There are vile people out there that have got used to running their own show.  It wasn't just Saddam the southerners had to worry about, nor the Iranians.  It was also there own tribal elders that were involved in smuggling, extracting black mail, kidnapping and ransom.  That has been their way of life.  That doesn't get cleaned up over night.

The locals have to be led by example and they need to have their fears dispelled and their self-confidence boosted. 

That takes time.  And in the meantime people die.  That is the price - one way or another.


 
Good on the BRits for getting their guys back.

Had they failed to do so and the rank and file had to watch buddies of theirs being decapitated while wearing the ever-famous orqange jumpsuite, I predict that the morale would have dipped rather low.

It might have also caused a few more accidents "whoops, sorry mate, didn't mean to wipe your family out like that. Guess it wasn't on SAFE after all..."

 
SpruceTree said:
The mere fact that the IP arrested the Brits tells me that something has gone pretty pear-shaped in the relationship between the coalition and the police they are meant to be supporting/training. Time to go.
incorrect. The relationship between the Brits and the Iraqi "Police" in Basra has been 'iffy' at best from the get-go. The "Police" are the criminals. Same story in Afghanistan. We had to deal with it there. Still are.
 
You mean the PD Mayors brother the Police Cheif / Local Warlord Opium dealer...
 
KevinB said:
You mean the PD Mayors brother the Police Cheif / Local Warlord Opium dealer...
and their cousin, and his brother-in-law, and his... ::) Whole damn infra-structure is rotten to the core, all the way up.
News to anyone who's been there?

Iraq is even worse, according to those with their boots on the ground.
 
Yet if you read the papers you'd think that the British govt was to blame

F*****g reporters have their heads up their asses...as usual.
 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4264614.stm

The soldiers were arrested by police and then handed over to a militia group, the British Army says.
Iraq's interior ministry ordered the police force in Basra to release the soldiers but that order was ignored.
In a statement, Brig Lorimer said that under Iraqi law the soldiers should have been handed over to coalition authorities, but this failed to happen despite repeated requests.
Tensions were already high in Basra on Monday morning following the detention on Sunday of a senior figure in the Shia Mehdi Army, suspected of being behind a series of attacks on British troops

Keep in mind, the Mehdi militia had been operating in that area as de facto "police" for some time, now. About '03, as I remember being told. They would drive around the area with pictures of the Ayatollah on their vehicles, and enforce their "law".
Very much like the Northern Alliance militias did in and around Kabul. Put on badges, break the law, then investigate. Warlords become Mayors, Police Chiefs, Generals, and Governors. Makes for interesting negotiations at times.
 
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