Off-Road Recce / Driver Wheeled and Adventure Training Course

[Freerider]

Hey everyone. I'm looking to get something started for those in LFCA and I want to get a rough idea of how many of you would be interested in taking a course like this if it was offered. It's exactly as the subject implies:

Off-Road Recce / Driver Wheeled and Adventure Training Course

The purpose of this course would be to teach the basics and fundamentals of off-road vehicles. This would include vehicles like ATVs, Dirtbikes, Snowmobiles and anything else you can think of ... I am open to suggestions. I think in many ways the military overlooks these aspects of training and their value. Not only are they fun but tactical as well. I know the military does provide a course for these machines but I think it lacks quality and represent ion (by all means prove me wrong).

The course would be civilian ran though all staff (like myself) will either be military members or have a clear understanding of how the CF operates effectively.

If you have any suggestions or just want to let me know what you think please feel free to contact me

 

[Sig_Des]

So basically, you should make clear that this is:

A) NOT a military course (Trade, specialty, wheeled, or otherwise)

B) NOT a military sponsored course

C) NOT a course that is recognized or can have costs refunded by the BPSO

D) NOT a course that will give you any official qualifications, civillian or military.

 

[Freerider]

So basically, you should make clear that this is:

A) NOT a military course (Trade, specialty, wheeled, or otherwise)

B) NOT a military sponsored course

C) NOT a course that is recognized or can have costs refunded by the BPSO

D) NOT a course that will give you any official qualifications, civillian or military.

Actually, no. Snowmobile and ATV ARE on the military 404. I believe ATV is G18 and I can't remember snowmobile. It would be done similar to how the civilians in Meaford are running the driver wheeled so you would get a qualification. I would look into being able to qualify on those two and try and bring back the motorcycle. For those who do motocross or recreational dirtbiking they can speak on behalf of the riders that they will be of great benefit for the CF (That's pushing it though but I like a challenge)

 

[Sig_Des]

Actually, no. Snowmobile and ATV ARE on the military 404. I believe ATV is G18 and I can't remember snowmobile. It would be done similar to how the civilians in Meaford are running the driver wheeled so you would get a qualification. I would look into being able to qualify on those two and try and bring back the motorcycle. For those who do motocross or recreational dirtbiking they can speak on behalf of the riders that they will be of great benefit for the military (That's pushing it thought but I like a challenge)

Yes, those are 404 qualifications. With the approved Drivers course, by qualified Driver Instructors, and a Qualified Driver Examiner. You must be qualified by the military.

Your course would have to be approved by the military, and you would have to have all civillian instructors qualified as per above.

 

[geo]

Lesson plans, EOs, POs, Course reports AND the Area Battle School's standards cell.

 

[Sig_Des]

Lesson plans, EOs, POs, Course reports AND the Area Battle School's standards cell.

Not to mention funding, availiability of vehicles, vehicle maintenance, qualified instructors, access to learning material and training areas.

 

[Freerider]

Fortunately working for Suzuki they have agreed to donate some machines (we would do our own maintenance) and I do have the courses to examine along with the staff. It's just about getting approved. I just want to know who would be interested in taking this kind of course and what they would expect from it.

 

[Sig_Des]

Fortunately working for Suzuki they have agreed to donate some machines (we would do our own maintenance) and I do have the courses to examine along with the staff. It's just about getting approved. I just want to know who would be interested in taking this kind of course and what they would expect from it.

The point we're making is that there's a lot more to it then saying, I have the vehicles. let's start a course. Especially if you want it to be official.

You say you have the qualifications. Are you a qualified MILITARY Driver Instructor on said vehicles, or a qualified Military Driver EXAMINER on said vehicles.

 

[Freerider]

I understand. This is all stuff I am aware of.
I'm qualified instructor, my partner is qualified examiner

 

[geo]

My honst suggestion here, without peeing in your corn flakes, would be for you to go see your unit training officer.  You of-course belong to the Toronto Svc Bn (ps: remove your DIN email account).  The unit training officer might find true value in what you are looking to accomplish and he can bring his knowledge and experience into your project.

Good luck

 

[Freerider]

Thanks

 

[Sig_Des]

Also, if you're going the "off road recce" route, you might want to make sure to get training imput from some of the mounted Recce types.

 

[Freerider]

Also, if you're going the "off road recce" route, you might want to make sure to get training imput from some of the mounted Recce types.

Something I didn't think of - thanks

 

[mudrecceman]

Also, if you're going the "off road recce" route, you might want to make sure to get training imput from some of the mounted Recce types.

My first thought reading this was "safety".

Great.  You are a qual driver instr.  How about experienced?  I looked at your age on your profile.  Qualified sure.  The other part?  I doubt it. 

Liability?  You are certainly "planning for the worst" i.e. accidents and injuries?  How will these people be medevacd? 

Being a qualified and exeperienced Dvr Instr, we ALWAYS taught the safety aspect first, whether it be in servicing lectures "hot parts burn" "protective clothing will be worn AT ALL TIMES during battery maint" etc etc.  That included crossing obstacles, recovering vehicles, you name it.

Lots to think about and plan for.  Bases are set up to support stuff like this, in a way that is safe.

Thats the first stuff I thought of...from my own experience in mounted recce and off road recce stuff.  We had a Fd Amb on Ex for a reason.  One ex involved a helicopter medevac to a hospital, 3 no-duff pers cas.  So thats where I am coming from.

 

[3rd Herd]

Fortunately working for Suzuki they have agreed to donate some machines (we would do our own maintenance) and I do have the courses to examine along with the staff. It's just about getting approved. I just want to know who would be interested in taking this kind of course and what they would expect from it.

Well Slowsuzuki and yes I have been around since of the days of "Squid Kid", the Trinder brothers from down under, suffered through the Gary Goodfellow charades ( although I did get to play a small bit with the Britin and helped Peter rebuild the engine, I passed tools and fetched beverages), and remember when a certain Honda rider was a "he" rather than the "she", she is today. When we journeyed afar and then came back home  more often than not with a nice collection of  "wood"(WERA Endurance 1989 Series.) Americans just hate to see their National Series event trophies come back to Canada. Currently, I go out to lunch/beverages with one of your long time of your former Suzuki district reps, occasionally the retired head of Yamaha Canada joins us if he is in town.

Having now named dropped enough  so you can see this is my lane.  Aside from the points already mentioned it will not fly. From the industry standpoint Bombardier has a stranglehold on all Federal government contracts. This may have something to do with a "first right of refusal" agreement for various reasons. It also maybe the government is getting some of it's decades worth of loan money. Next, Bombardier pays for all service on their equipment in Federal use for a number of years, I did a whole bunch of RCMP sleds and ATVs last year. BMW started this little caveat selling their bikes to various police forces.  On the dealer side of things that is a real pain, one example is explaining to a very good cash paying customer that the part that just came in is not his but is going on a piece of Federal equipment, his will be off B/O (back order) in five or six weeks. Apologies to some site members as I have brought some of this up before. Continuing, Kawasaki Canada had grand dreams the CF was going to copy their American counterparts  and a production line worth of KLRs 250/650s would be seen scuring across the plains of Wainwright. When Bombardier cannot fill a vehicle allotment, local purchasing is involved hence for the most part why some detachments etc have Honda's and Yamaha. Yamaha a couple of years ago (2004/2005) tried to get Jet Skis out to the West Coast on a similar deal to yours for surf rescue. Nope Wardens are riding Bombardiers. I would say look east young man but everyone is still hoping mad over the practice of re-export.

 

[Freerider]

My first thought reading this was "safety".

Great.  You are a qual driver instr.  How about experienced?  I looked at your age on your profile.  Qualified sure.  The other part?  I doubt it. 

Liability?  You are certainly "planning for the worst" i.e. accidents and injuries?  How will these people be medevacd? 

Being a qualified and exeperienced Dvr Instr, we ALWAYS taught the safety aspect first, whether it be in servicing lectures "hot parts burn" "protective clothing will be worn AT ALL TIMES during battery maint" etc etc.  That included crossing obstacles, recovering vehicles, you name it.

Lots to think about and plan for.  Bases are set up to support stuff like this, in a way that is safe.

Thats the first stuff I thought of...from my own experience in mounted recce and off road recce stuff.  We had a Fd Amb on Ex for a reason.  One ex involved a helicopter medevac to a hospital, 3 no-duff pers cas.  So thats where I am coming from.

I didn't expect to be defending myself when I posted this. I have bee riding dirtbikes since I was very young. Even competed in Motocross and Tri-style comps. Having 11 years behind me in the off-road industry makes me quite qualified even if I am 19.  I will however take in account to what you said in regards to safety. Being around these things I too have seen and felt my share of injuries but having the right attitude and equipment can help prevent most serious injuries. I will not be teaching members how to pull a fender kiss on day 1.

 

[Freerider]

Well Slowsuzuki and yes I have been around since of the days of "Squid Kid", the Trinder brothers from down under, suffered through the Gary Goodfellow charades ( although I did get to play a small bit with the Britin and helped Peter rebuild the engine, I passed tools and fetched beverages), and remember when a certain Honda rider was a "he" rather than the "she", she is today. When we journeyed afar and then came back home  more often than not with a nice collection of  "wood"(WERA Endurance 1989 Series.) Americans just hate to see their National Series event trophies come back to Canada. Currently, I go out to lunch/beverages with one of your long time of your former Suzuki district reps, occasionally the retired head of Yamaha Canada joins us if he is in town.

Having now named dropped enough  so you can see this is my lane.  Aside from the points already mentioned it will not fly. From the industry standpoint Bombardier has a stranglehold on all Federal government contracts. This may have something to do with a "first right of refusal" agreement for various reasons. It also maybe the government is getting some of it's decades worth of loan money. Next, Bombardier pays for all service on their equipment in Federal use for a number of years, I did a whole bunch of RCMP sleds and ATVs last year. BMW started this little caveat selling their bikes to various police forces.  On the dealer side of things that is a real pain, one example is explaining to a very good cash paying customer that the part that just came in is not his but is going on a piece of Federal equipment, his will be off B/O (back order) in five or six weeks. Apologies to some site members as I have brought some of this up before. Continuing, Kawasaki Canada had grand dreams the CF was going to copy their American counterparts  and a production line worth of KLRs 250/650s would be seen scuring across the plains of Wainwright. When Bombardier cannot fill a vehicle allotment, local purchasing is involved hence for the most part why some detachments etc have Honda's and Yamaha. Yamaha a couple of years ago (2004/2005) tried to get Jet Skis out to the West Coast on a similar deal to yours for surf rescue. Nope Wardens are riding Bombardiers. I would say look east young man but everyone is still hoping mad over the practice of re-export.

Thanks for the imput. Just for future reference. I am a chick. Not a young man.

 

[Sig_Des]

I didn't expect to be defending myself when I posted this. I have bee riding dirtbikes since I was very young. Even competed in Motocross and Tri-style comps. Having 11 years behind me in the off-road industry makes me quite qualified even if I am 19.  I will however take in account to what you said in regards to safety. Being around these things I too have seen and felt my share of injuries but having the right attitude and equipment can help prevent most serious injuries. I will not be teaching members how to pull a fender kiss on day 1.

I think where MRM is going with this is the liability. If it's a military course, will there be proper medical support for the course. (A la, Cpl so and so will be manning the safety vehicle, conduct immediate FA, followed by medevac, etc.)

If it's a civillian run course, will the military cover insurance and vehicle damage, etc.

Keep in mind, you will have to defend this. For the most part, we play Devil's advocate. Be nice to see such course run, but when you put this idea forward, you're going to be defending it at EVERY turn. And believe me, for the most part, they won't care about 11 years of off-road outside of the military.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

{sarcasm on} It has merit. That said, if it was to fly, it would be co-opted by a bunch of talking heads, paper pushers and pencil grinders. The final product would bear no resembelance to the project you envisioned. It would take a few years to get it passed all the above, and it would end up being a course on 'Segways in the Office Enviroment' where DEUs would be the course dress and the biggest obstacle would be the stairs.{sarcasm off}

'Illegitimis non est carborundum'. Keep the ideas coming and don't get discouraged.

 

[Freerider]

I think where MRM is going with this is the liability. If it's a military course, will there be proper medical support for the course. (A la, Cpl so and so will be manning the safety vehicle, conduct immediate FA, followed by medevac, etc.)

If it's a civillian run course, will the military cover insurance and vehicle damage, etc.

Keep in mind, you will have to defend this. For the most part, we play Devil's advocate. Be nice to see such course run, but when you put this idea forward, you're going to be defending it at EVERY turn. And believe me, for the most part, they won't care about 11 years of off-road outside of the military.

Fair enough. It was an idea to throw out there. Either way this was a branch of something we already have going so if no one seems into than I wont waste my time. Stick to where I have already succeeded. Thanks for the advice.