"O'Connor has $8B military 'wish list"

[C and P]

Sold to the Dutch, who still fly them today.

If the Dutch ever show up our troops will probably end up flying in them.

 

[MarkOttawa]

C and P: The Dutch are there.  "Dutch confident about Afghanistan mission":
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006%5C05%5C11%5Cstory_11-5-2006_pg4_22

With Apaches and F-16s.

See also:

"Afstan: Facts little known in Canada"
http://toyoufromfailinghands.blogspot.com/2006/05/afstan-facts-little-known-in-canada.html

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Kirkhill]

You should be my accountant - I'm sure I'd get some more on my tax return.... 

Or we'd both end up sharing a cell....

 

[Good2Golf]

If the Dutch ever show up our troops will probably end up flying in them.

They [Dutch CH47D's] are there already.  In Khandahar, I had a quick walk-though one of the rebuilt models that I had flown before they were sold.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[BillN]

Duey,

I hope you shed an appropriate tear when you did your walk through  :-[ 

Regards,
Bill

 

[Good2Golf]

Duey,

I hope you shed an appropriate tear when you did your walk through  :-[ 

Regards,
Bill

Bill, I did...

RIP CH147005 ( <- IMO, the nicest flying of our 47's  :'(  )

Cheers,
Duey

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

C17 = good thing we should buy today without any messing around
CH47 = vital thing we should have bought yesterday. 

We need the gunships to go with the CH47s.

Sell the Snowbirds and the Griffons.

2B

 

[Armymatters]

Sell the Snowbirds and the Griffons.

2B

Your going to sell a demostration team? With all the personnel as well?  (I jest, I know you meant the Tutors, although they probally aren't worth much, perhaps as scrap metal)

Griffons, I can see selling like hotcakes, they are Bell Model 412 helos, very popular in the commerical market, and with militaries on the cheap.

We need the gunships to go with the CH47s.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/33069.30.html
Already being guessed upon and discussed as to which is better.

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

By sell I mean get rid of the things/ Sqns to free up the PYs and O&M.

 

[geo]

C17 = good thing we should buy today without any messing around
CH47 = vital thing we should have bought yesterday. 

We need the gunships to go with the CH47s.

Sell the Snowbirds and the Griffons.

2B

Hope that if you intend to dump the Griffons, you're planning to replace em with other light helos.... CH47 are a little bit "large" for most tasks.

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Hope that if you intend to dump the Griffons, you're planning to replace em with other light helos.... CH47 are a little bit "large" for most tasks.

Common fleet of H-92's?


Matthew. 

 

[FSTO]

Every time Ujjal Dosanjh opens his mouth, he sounds more and more like a complete idiot when it comes to defence issues. He should have stuck with local BC politics

http://server09.densan.ca/archivenews/060530/cit/060530aj.htm

 

[vonGarvin]

Dosahnj is an idiot.  How in the blazes would a drawn out politically motivated competition benefit Canadians?  Or did he mean cronies?  I remember the SOR for the Seaking replacement had, at one time as one of its "necessities" the following: x percent of maintenance to be peformed by companies owned/operated by first nation's communities.  What in the blazes does that have to do with the performance of anything?  Anyway, it's refreshing to see progress at the ministerial level on matters of procurement.

 

[Sf2]

Common fleet of H-92's

Too big

 

[TangoTwoBravo]

If the Griffon can do casevac/medevac in Kandahar province then it can stay in limited numbers.  Otherwise it is stealing manpower and O&M from potential birds that can do the real lifting.

A serious army would have AH-64s (not even Longbows), CH-47s and UH-60s as its baseline.  CH-47s do most of the stuff we normally associate with "Hueys" in Afghanistan.

Cheers,

2B

 

[KevinB]

I think the Griffon can still be used for some SOF roles -- inserting SR teams, and times that its limited payload is not a big drag.  Heck some single engine Hueys fly here...

However I would suggest that 2B is 110% correct -- for any major usage the Chinook gets the nod here.

  If they current Ch146 airframe where used for dedicated CSAR and Med-Evac/Dustoff roles - it would still be a player conventionally -- however its use other than that is NIL

 

[Wizard of OZ]

If the Griffon can do casevac/medevac in Kandahar province then it can stay in limited numbers.  Otherwise it is stealing manpower and O&M from potential birds that can do the real lifting.

A serious army would have AH-64s (not even Longbows), CH-47s and UH-60s as its baseline.  CH-47s do most of the stuff we normally associate with "Hueys" in Afghanistan.

Cheers,

2B

That would be a good mix of proven equipment.  But see there in lies the problem you are using your head and it makes sense.  So we would more then likely see a hodge podge of helos from different manufactures some proven (to pass) some proven to fail, but this way we keep parts supplies across the globe happy.

 

[Good2Golf]

I think the Griffon can still be used for some SOF roles -- inserting SR teams, and times that its limited payload is not a big drag.  Heck some single engine Hueys fly here...

However I would suggest that 2B is 110% correct -- for any major usage the Chinook gets the nod here.

  If they current Ch146 airframe where used for dedicated CSAR and Med-Evac/Dustoff roles - it would still be a player conventionally -- however its use other than that is NIL

Concur, I think 146 in a specific, light role would work well, but we also need the heavy capability yesterday.

Cheers,
Duey

 

[Armymatters]

Concur, I think 146 in a specific, light role would work well, but we also need the heavy capability yesterday.

Cheers,
Duey

So turn a few of the Griffons into light observation helo's (like the old Kiowa's) and sell the rest off to help fund a proper medium/heavy lift helo?

 

[Old Sweat]

As one who has a fair amount exposure to operating with light observation heliopters dating back to the CH112 (and L19s, thank you very much) with a more than passing acquaintance with the CH113 thrown in, I suggest that a Griffon is not well suited for both recce and observation tasks. The difference in size and flight characteristics between a LOH and an utility helicopter is as pronounced as that between a Griffon and a Chinook.

With that blimpish harrumph out of the way, I will crawl back into my cage and have another cold beer before dinner.