No more 7.62 sniper system

[Timberwolfe]

So it looks like Canada will not have a .308 cal sniper system any longer. The new (typicaly) overpriced medium range sniper weapon system (MRSWS) will be it. I find it odd that we go with the .338 Lapua round when we already have the .50 cal sniper system.  ??? The MRSWS at a cost of close to $15000.00 per unit seems a bit out there when we could have bought the M40 for half that price. I admit the .338 Lapua Timberwolfe is a beutifull system but  because of the cost they are buying limited numbers. Where as we could have twice as many M40's. Or what I think would be even better would be to bridge the gap with the HK MSG90. 

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Well it is my understanding that the system was picked by the snipers themselves. It will be a significantly lighter system to carry around that the .50cal and better suited for Urban ops. The 308 is an excellent round but the new round gives a significant edge at longer ranges.

 

[MG34]

So it looks like Canada will not have a .308 cal sniper system any longer. The new (typicaly) overpriced medium range sniper weapon system (MRSWS) will be it. I find it odd that we go with the .338 Lapua round when we already have the .50 cal sniper system.  ??? The MRSWS at a cost of close to $15000.00 per unit seems a bit out there when we could have bought the M40 for half that price. I admit the .338 Lapua Timberwolfe is a beutifull system but  because of the cost they are buying limited numbers. Where as we could have twice as many M40's. Or what I think would be even better would be to bridge the gap with the HK MSG90. 

First off it's TIMBERWOLF not Timberwolfe,the M40 does not meet the requirements of the MRSWS,hence the .338 Lapua caliber. The numbers purchased are based on the requirements not the price,which has nothing to do with anything BTW the 15K price is the retail pricing NOT what DND is paying). The MSG90mis not a military sniper rifle,it is intended as a sharpshooter's rifle (we already have systems to fill that role) I suggest you engage your brain before engageing your fingers and learn before you post. It is obvious you are out of your depth here.

 

[GO!!!]

If I'm not mistaken, there are significant adcantages to the .338 related to the higher speed of the round, the flatter trajectory and, as mentioned, the lighter weight of the weapon.

The .50 has the trajectory of a basketball going for a three point shot at range, and is far more susceptable to atmospheric conditions (like wind) due to this slow speed, large round and high arc. The Lapua .338 is more akin to a laser beam, being far faster and flatter, and as such, is more accurate.

This will no doubt contrast with Timberwolfe's extensive Counterstrike "experience" but hey, the truth hurts. 

 

[NavyShooter]

Often have I regretted my speech, never my silence

I like this line!

As for the Timberwolf, well, the selection process excluded the .308 systems due to the long range requirements.  No M-40A1 for you.

The shooters will have the gear they want, and need to do the jobs asked of them. 

Not being "there" as it were, I do find myself thinking it likely that the .308 will be retained in at the very least a training capacity, allowing more training rounds to be expended for the same costs.

YMMV, but I don't think the .308 is completely gone yet, though with MUCH better systems onhand than the MSG-90, why would people think about buying an antiquated weapons system?  Is there a 1913 integral rail on the MSG that I've never seen? 

Counterstrike experience included, I'd lean towards the guys pulling the real triggers.

NS

 

[KevinB]

We have the AR10T as a 7.62mm spotter weapon.

MG34 and others already showed your ass -- please keep your uneducated comments to yourself.

 

[HItorMiss]

I had been watching Timberwolfes post and wondering when someone would jump on him, someone with more weapons knowledge then myself that is, TimberWolf time to back out nice and slow don't push a losing postion, you just lose your command needlesly.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Actually a good point though, .308 in a similar platform to the Timberwolf would make an inexpensive rifle for reservist snipers to train on. Plus good quality .308 ammo is common as dirt and fairly cheap. The rifle should have the same scope and similar stock.

 

[NavyShooter]

Reservist snipers?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I don't think there are many of those kicking around.

 

[geo]

some reservists have qualified as snipers.... not many, but there are some.

WRT a 308 sniper rifle.... that's what the Parker hale C3 is all about
but, having been in use for some 30 years, it's fairly dated and seen better days.

To date, there are few oportunities for Reservists to maintain their skill set as a sniper. Hard enough for em to keep up in their basic occupation.

IMHO

 

[HItorMiss]

Lets be clear here before we get a bunch of I wanna be a Reservist Sniper/Recce/Jumper/JTF2/Ninja god

all known Reservist that are Sniper qualified attained that course through the Regular Force, as in they were Reg Force soldiers that were lucky and skilled enough to but receive the Recce Course and then Pass the Sniper Course, There are no Reserve Sniper courses, nor do Reservist get slotted onto Regular Force Sniper Course's.

Sorry for the thread hijack but I could see where this may have lead and I wanted to stop it in its tracks.

now back to talking about why we went with the .338 lupa round and rifle

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Hmmm, interesting, they used to have them, but then they also used have HMG’s platoon with .50cals, mortar platoon with 81mm’s and a anti tank platoon with the Carl G and 106RR. Glad to see we have “modernized” the reserves.  :'(

Anyways, everything I hear about the new sniper rifle is great, saw a picture of the kit issue that comes with each rifle and there is a fair bit of stuff included.

 

[geo]

106RR platoons?.... not really - I belonged to a 106 unit and you need more than 4 dets to make a platoon

50 cal platoons - never saw any of those

81mm mortar platoon?..... if my memory serves me right, those units were limited to 4 tubes.....

Enough kit to develop basic capabilities - not really enough to develop a deployable capability.

 

[geo]

Hit or miss....
If memory serves me right, some spots were made available to reservists.
this goes back to the early 80s - pretty sure at least two fellas attended.

 

[GO!!!]

Lets be clear here before we get a bunch of I wanna be a Reservist Sniper/Recce/Jumper/JTF2/Ninja god

all known Reservist that are Sniper qualified attained that course through the Regular Force, as in they were Reg Force soldiers that were lucky and skilled enough to but receive the Recce Course and then Pass the Sniper Course, There are no Reserve Sniper courses, nor do Reservist get slotted onto Regular Force Sniper Course's.

+ 1

 

[NATO Boy]

Lets be clear here before we get a bunch of I wanna be a Reservist Sniper/Recce/Jumper/JTF2/Ninja god

all known Reservist that are Sniper qualified attained that course through the Regular Force, as in they were Reg Force soldiers that were lucky and skilled enough to but receive the Recce Course and then Pass the Sniper Course, There are no Reserve Sniper courses, nor do Reservist get slotted onto Regular Force Sniper Course's.

What about INDOC sniper? I know of one WO in my unit who has it; never served in the Regs either...

 

[KevinB]

What about INDOC sniper? I know of one WO in my unit who has it; never served in the Regs either...

???

Pre Sniper (pre course to weed out and pre train)
Basic Sniper
Sniper Det Commander
Master/Advanced Sniper

There have been threads prevosuly on the .338LM and MRSWS selection.

 

[George Wallace]

What about INDOC sniper? ...

???

INDOC sniper   ???

What the heck is an INDOC sniper?

"Hello.  My name is Sgt. 'Red'.  For the next forty minutes I will be giving you a lecture on the Sniper rifles employed by the CF.  The Main Teaching Points of this Lecture will be: The Names and Characteristics of all CF Sniper Rifles; The Types of Ammunition used in CF Sniper Rifles; and, a Brief Overview of How the CF Employes Sniper Rifles.  The References are listed on your handouts.  This Lecture is Unclassified."

 

[GO!!!]

"Hello.  My name is Sgt. 'Red'.  For the next forty minutes I will be giving you a lecture on the Sniper rifles employed by the CF.  The Main Teaching Points of this Lecture will be: The Names and Characteristics of all CF Sniper Rifles; The Types of Ammunition used in CF Sniper Rifles; and, a Brief Overview of How the CF Employes Sniper Rifles.  The References are listed on your handouts.  This Lecture is Unclassified."

Woohooo!

I'm an INDOC sniper!

<scurries over to phone and tells Pl 2i/c of new qualification,  and asks for an additional entry on the courses sheet>

Actually, I must be an advanced INDOC sniper - I've actually fired and owned some of the sniper rifles!