New Dress Regs 🤣

[Kilted]

I refuse to pay my own money to subsidize the Crown's failures. If the system is gonna give me stuff that doesn't fit well, then so be it. Fix the system, don't expect the member to pay themselves to solve the CAF's problems.

Last time I got a new DEU jacket, I had to pay $70 out if pocket to get the badges sewn on because the only tailor that Brigade had retired. It was normally a four or five month turnaround anyways. I remember when the Div patches came out and they took everyone's DEU jackets a couple months before Remembrance Day and put out am order that no one would wear DEU for Remembrance Day.

 

[Kilted]

Jesus it's no wonder this place has such a terrible reputation.

I'm just going to come out and say that that statement is very offensive to Christians.

 

[btrudy]

Last time I got a new DEU jacket, I had to pay $70 out if pocket to get the badges sewn on because the only tailor that Brigade had retired. It was normally a four or five month turnaround anyways. I remember when the Div patches came out and they took everyone's DEU jackets a couple months before Remembrance Day and put out am order that no one would wear DEU for Remembrance Day.

And by doing so, you propped up the system yourself, with your own money. And thereby reduced any requirement that the nice folks who are in charge of allocating resources in order to fix problems like this would have otherwise had to do so. If you can't show up with a DEU tunic because there isn't a tailor, that'll highlight the problem; if you fix it on your own, then problem solved, no reason for the CAF / DND to bother.

You gotta let the system fail sometimes, otherwise our glorious leaders aren't going to bother fixing what's broken.

And this is especially important when it comes to the leadership aspect. If you're going out there and setting the expectation for all your personnel that they should be paying themselves to fix the CAF's problems, well then hell you might as well just be stealing money out of their wallet.

 

[FSTO]

Oh cry me a fucking river. God forbid I react poorly against unjustified personal insults by a god damned moderator of this forum.

Jesus it's no wonder this place has such a terrible reputation.

Then GTFO if you hate it here.

 

[btrudy]

Then GTFO if you hate it here.

What, and leave the place even more of an echo chamber?

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Common folks, lets not insult each other.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

What, and leave the place even more of an echo chamber?

This place is far from an echo chamber.

I don't agree with half the opinions expressed here and have countered with my own thoughts and opinions in a respectful manner. Sometimes people are swayed, a lot of times I get another rebuttal. If I glean more that I can comment on, the discussion keeps moving forward. Sometimes it moves along or I leave because it's not worth the time and effort.

That is debate and constructive communication. I am not compelled to stay in the argument any more than I am to start one.

Your posts have been thought-provoking for me, I will admit it. You have brought forward important parts of the discussion and have brought some perspective that is refreshing.

Here is the issue:

You have come off as abrasive and hostile whenever you are met with an opinion that runs counter to yours. You make accusations and point fingers vice taking an opinion in at face value and countering those opinions with facts or experience.

I have learned a lot here by keeping my mouth shut. I have also learned sometimes it's better to realise your opinion or point of view is not getting through and to walk away. I can't change people opinions or thoughts any more than I can ensure there are jalapeño poppers in the Mess on Friday.

I value your opinion here just as much as anyone else participating in the discussion. I don't agree with it all the time, nor do I expect I will agree with everyone on here or anyone to value my ramblings either.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Jesus it's no wonder this place has such a terrible reputation.

And there it is

 

[btrudy]

You have come off as abrasive and hostile whenever you are met with an opinion that runs counter to yours. You make accusations and point fingers vice taking an opinion in at face value and countering those opinions with facts or experience.

I have learned a lot here by keeping my mouth shut. I have also learned sometimes it's better to realise your opinion or point of view is not getting through and to walk away. I can't change people opinions or thoughts any more than I can ensure there are jalapeño poppers in the Mess on Friday.

I value your opinion here just as much as anyone else participating in the discussion. I don't agree with it all the time, nor do I expect I will agree with everyone on here or anyone to value my ramblings either.

C'mon. I made a comment about how I refuse to personally pay for tailoring that the Crown should be paying for, and in response I got a forum moderator telling me that there's "not much that I will do" and that I'd be worthless in civilian employment, and a senior officer telling me that he hoped that he'd never be in the same room as me. You can't pretend that those are reasonable or proportionate responses.

Yes, you may have noticed me being angry in posts somewhat, but I get a hell of a lot more than I dish out in terms of hostility. I'd humbly suggest that you're far more likely to notice when I punch back simply because it's a crowd of people being hostile to me, and then me being hostile back to the crowd in response.

This is of course what will happen when you have only a few dissenters in what is otherwise an echo chamber. That's literally how an echo chamber is created; by the dominate crowd driving out those who disagree.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I don't find discussing those issues interesting. The material state of our materiel is well known, and largely isn't a technical issue at all, but a matter of political will / resource allocation. Endlessly discussing how all our stuff's broken and isn't going to get fixed is a bit too sisyphean for my tastes.

Culture change is at least a topic where there's interesting things actually happening.

Yet giving your views on those issues will help you establish a reputation of one that has looked at the whole picture and not a slice of the pie. Not to mention a idea about your knowledge base and experience.
At this point your looking like a one trick pony and that does not help your arguments. We get a lot of people come here with Joan of Arc attitude on one particular issue and it generally does not end well as the result is that person ends up making personal attacks which eventually results in them leaving or being banned. I am not trying to attack you, but making an observation that might be of assistance to you.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

This is of course what will happen when you have only a few dissenters in what is otherwise an echo chamber. That's literally how an echo chamber is created; by the dominate crowd driving out those who disagree.

Further to my post, is that if you read posts on other subjects, you will find we are often in violent disagreement with each other. A number of the navy people and people like myself argue a great deal about Navy attitudes to arming non-frigate vessel and I am a proponent of giving the PRes new M119 105mm so they have something to work with, which quite a few people disagree with. these are just a couple of examples. I have yet to meet a hive mind on this forum.

 

[markppcli]

And there it is

Wait, do you not think army.ca has a bad reputation? Like I’m sorry I come here for a couple interesting conversations but the prevailing attitudes here are pretty clear. Which is fine it’s also why I typically avoid the culture conversations here.

The fact that Mods on here are willing to insult members is… problematic. To say the least. Regarding the echo chamber, there are maybe two dissenting opinions on this thread. A dozen or more pages ago some one mentioned how users here come from a broad spectrum. I’d be stunned if at 36 I wasn’t one of the youngest here, and I’m aware of maybe one female member. Anyways none of this really matters what’s happening is happening.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

C'mon. I made a comment about how I refuse to personally pay for tailoring that the Crown should be paying for, and in response I got a forum moderator telling me that there's "not much that I will do" and that I'd be worthless in civilian employment, and a senior officer telling me that he hoped that he'd never be in the same room as me. You can't pretend that those are reasonable or proportionate responses.

Yes, you may have noticed me being angry in posts somewhat, but I get a hell of a lot more than I dish out in terms of hostility. I'd humbly suggest that you're far more likely to notice when I punch back simply because it's a crowd of people being hostile to me, and then me being hostile back to the crowd in response.

This is of course what will happen when you have only a few dissenters in what is otherwise an echo chamber. That's literally how an echo chamber is created; by the dominate crowd driving out those who disagree.

You'll notice that nobody has driven you out. You'll also notice that unlike other social media platforms (e.g. CAF Reddit) we don't usually lock threads here and allow everyone to post their thoughts freely. I didn't even edit your posts for the profanities; however, you need to do your best to conform to site guidelines like everyone else.

If you're unhappy with a post made, message a member of the staff directly or report the post using the report function.

Swearing at people isn't a good way to get your message across and is a violation of the site guidelines.

 

[FSTO]

, and a senior officer telling me that he hoped that he'd never be in the same room as me.

I routinely do more than what is expected of me and that includes paying a little bit of out of pocket money to look presentable. I’ve worked with guys like you and it’s not a rewarding experience for me or for the rest of the crew.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Wait, do you not think army.ca has a bad reputation? Like I’m sorry I come here for a couple interesting conversations but the prevailing attitudes here are pretty clear. Which is fine it’s also why I typically avoid the culture conversations here.

The fact that Mods on here are willing to insult members is… problematic. To say the least. Regarding the echo chamber, there are maybe two dissenting opinions on this thread. A dozen or more pages ago some one mentioned how users here come from a broad spectrum. I’d be stunned if at 36 I wasn’t one of the youngest here, and I’m aware of maybe one female member. Anyways none of this really matters what’s happening is happening.

Who do you think locks more threads and police's participants more? Us or other platforms?

I 100% guarantee other platforms like Reddit have way more stringent rules and lock way more threads. CAF Reddit is great for shit talking and memes but pretty low on actual substance and in depth conversations relevant to the profession of arms.

I know we allow more debate because I am also a member of other platforms where CAF members and former members comment

 

[markppcli]

I routinely do more than what is expected of me and that includes paying a little bit of out of pocket money to look presentable. I’ve worked with guys like you and it’s not a rewarding experience for me or for the rest of the crew.

And I think he makes a valid argument that supplementing the militaries failures out of pocket creates an expectation that this can be relied on instead of the system. It reminds me of when my driver had to buy a ratchet set to keep the LAV going. Did it do the job, ye sof course, but the problem was now we were good to go off the back of our members bank accounts.

 

[markppcli]

Who do you think locks more threads and police's participants more? Us or other platforms?

I 100% guarantee other platforms like Reddit have way more stringent rules and lock way more threads. CAF Reddit is great for shit talking and memes but pretty low on actual substance and in depth conversations relevant to the profession of arms.

I know we allow more debate because I am also a member of other platforms where CAF members and former members comment

Oh you guys let a lot more go; for example the member on here who said the majority of trans people would be worthless to the CAF didn’t even get a warning from what I can tell. I digress.

Yeah I come here for talks about structure and equipment, and frankly the CAF subreddit has become something of a quagmire of negativity. I laughed pretty hard when they started talking about MCpls as “higher.” Anyways I was merely pointing out some realities and perspective.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

C'mon. I made a comment about how I refuse to personally pay for tailoring that the Crown should be paying for, and in response I got a forum moderator telling me that there's "not much that I will do" and that I'd be worthless in civilian employment, and a senior officer telling me that he hoped that he'd never be in the same room as me. You can't pretend that those are reasonable or proportionate responses.

I did not say they were, nor do I feel they are accurate portrayals of your ability/aptitude. They were, however, forming the opinion based on the attitude in which you presented your argument.

Hell I think it is bull shit that I have to go get my own uniform tailored, in addition to being forced to own mess kit and buy shoe polish; I still am going to do them because they're the price of admission. I didn't throw up my hands and say "screw that, I'm never going to pay out of pocket for something the Crown should be providing."

Yes, you may have noticed me being angry in posts somewhat, but I get a hell of a lot more than I dish out in terms of hostility. I'd humbly suggest that you're far more likely to notice when I punch back simply because it's a crowd of people being hostile to me, and then me being hostile back to the crowd in response.

Hostility begets hostility. It's been addressed further up the avenues to take if there is an issue. Hell I get warnings and cross lines on here and I get roped back into the community guidelines like any else.

This is of course what will happen when you have only a few dissenters in what is otherwise an echo chamber. That's literally how an echo chamber is created; by the dominate crowd driving out those who disagree.

I agree, however, there is not backing down and there is also trying to sell ice to a polar bear; sometimes, you aren't going to reach people. Your opinions are sometimes set further in stone than some of those dissenting to them. It happens. We all need to disengage at times when we're no longer making head way.

 

[Kat Stevens]

It’s not a new phenomenon (do doo do doo doo). When garrison dress came out, the belt had a perfectly adequate plastic buckle. Guess which other buckle fit the belt properly? The $20 (in 1988 dollars) metal branch/corps/regimental buckles that it was strongly suggested we buy. Guess who’s names appeared magically on the weekend duty list if they had a plastic buckle on their belt. Go on, guess. It’s easy!

 

[btrudy]

It’s not a new phenomenon (do doo do doo doo). When garrison dress came out, the belt had a perfectly adequate plastic buckle. Guess which other buckle fit the belt properly? The $20 (in 1988 dollars) metal branch/corps/regimental buckles that it was strongly suggested we buy. Guess who’s names appeared magically on the weekend duty list if they had a plastic buckle on their belt. Go on, guess. It’s easy!

The military has seen fit to create an entire L1 organization devoted to culture change. Why? Because even at the highest levels they're acknowledging that many aspects of military culture are fundamentally broken, and inherently toxic. This is a good example of exactly what it is that we need to fix.

No, it's not new. It is, however, wrong. Poor policies and terrible leadership don't become better just because you keep doing them for a long enough period of time.