New Coast Guard Ships

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Some great looking designs on the Damen website....

www.demen.nl

Apparently what we're looking at:

Other very interesting looking options: [

Matthew.

 

[gcclarke]

Of course, the problem with all the "more interesting" options you posted, is that they all come equipped with weapons, and thus our Coast Guard, not being a part of the military unlike many other nations, cannot use them.

 

[MarkOttawa]

gcclarke.  Vessels can be purchased without weapons installed.  RCMP and Fishery Officers will be armed when on board.

From Damen's news release:
http://www.damen.nl/News/Mid_Shore_Patrol_Vessel_contract_awarded_to_Irving_Shipbuilding_Inc_.aspx?mId=8565&rId=544

On the 2nd of September 2009 it was officially announced that Irving Shipbuilding Inc got awarded a contract by the Ministry of Public Works and Government Services of Canada for the construction of a series of Stan Patrol 4207 for the Canadian Coast Guard. The contract envisions nine vessels with an option for another three [not mentioned in the government news release],
http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/npress-communique/2009/hq-ac36-eng.htm
of which the first vessel is to be delivered within 24 months after contract award. Irving Shipbuilding Inc contracted Damen for the basic design...

How odd that the material our government released never mentioned the foreign design.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Let's hope they fit them with the hard points which would allow weapons to be fitted if required.

 

[Kirkhill]

How odd that the material our government released never mentioned the foreign design.

Mark
Ottawa

Aye, and "Recently Damen has been awarded similar contracts, of which the most significant involve the design for the Coastal Patrol Boat and the Fast Response Cutter-B for the United States Coastguard, which are being built by Bollinger Shipyards. "

 

[Newt]

1st steel plate cut for new Coast Guard ships.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/nova-scotia/story/2010/09/02/ns-patrol-vessels-ceremony.html

Apologies for the necro post, but it made more sense than a new topic.

 

[57Chevy]

Tories to consider arming Arctic-bound coast guard ships
article link

The Conservative government has revealed that it will consider arming the Canadian Coast Guard's icebreakers as a way to bolster Arctic sovereignty.

The commitment to study the option of placing guns on coast guard ships was the highlight of the government's tabled response this week to recommendations in a report from the Senate fisheries committee about strengthening Canada's presence in the North.

The government has also indicated that it will review new shipping regulations in the Northwest Passage and other Arctic waters with an eye to extending mandatory registration of foreign vessels — which currently applies only to large freighters and other heavy ships — to all foreign-ship traffic in the region, regardless of size.

Read more at link.

                  (Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act)

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Oh god Mike Byers and I are agreeing on something, ugh I feel like I have just been slimed.....

 

[chrisf]

The Conservative government has revealed that it will consider arming the Canadian Coast Guard's icebreakers as a way to bolster Arctic sovereignty.

Hah! Good luck with that!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Arming the ships with a couple of .50cals is easy to do. Training the crews to use them is easy to do. Changing the attitudes of the Captains to place their vessels and crews at risk, hard to do.
Boarding parties would require a significant change in job descriptions, training, attitude, physical fitness and resources, along with the change in the Captains.

 

[chrisf]

It's not just the captains, if you said tommorow that the coast guard ships were now fighting ships, you would have a substantial turn over in crew.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Back in the 90’s I would agree with you as we had lot’s of the old gang left at least out here on the left coast, many having started on the weather ships. Today I see a different type and with the DFO influence via the Fish Cops I think you would have less issues at the deck level than at the bridge level. Plus once they get to shoot the .50cal, they will want more.
I guessimated that it would cost about $50,000 to arm a 1100 class buoy tender. 3 MG’s, (1 spare), spare parts, barrels, two mounts either side of ship, already partial protected, just add a plate of armour onto the existing steel, secure storage locker for guns and one for ammo and some protective clothing. Hardwired comms to both mounts from the bridge will be the hardest part.

Training could be provided by the Regular or Reserve navy, Initial training and subsequent annual requalification’s can all be done aboard ship in regular working hours, so training costs other than ammo are minimal.

Again the real issue is forcing the Captains to adjust their thinking.

 

[chrisf]

Mounting a .50 maybe, when they said "armed" I was thinking somthing more substantial, in a turrret at least. But a.50, maybe.

You'd still need major cultural changes in the organization though to make it a standard for all ships.

The CCGS Cowley had two .50s mounted during the early 90. However, there was no real chance of anyone shooting back. Under similar cirumstances, you might be able to get away with arming the fleet.

But the coast guard is not a fighting force, they don't large enough crews to act as a fighting force, and the crews didn't sign up to fight. To turn the coast guard into even the slightest sort of fighting force, you'd have a long road ahead.

I guess it all comes down to needing a clear definition of what sort of force the coast guard would be expected to project.

As far as the actual fitting of guns, machine guns at least, not a problem. Deck space is always at a premium though, but a removable pedestal mount would work. Running comms, also not a problem, could easily be done through the ships telephone system, or even a direct line, quite easily.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Colin P: At least it wasn't St Steve Staples  ;D (who doubtless would howl at any more guns for anyone).  Could not any weapons--and some sort of smallish cannon would be required for a real sovereignty role I think--be manned crewed by Navy personnel (reserves?) on some sort of secondment with other useful duties?  Pity in a way we don't have marines in the old shipboard sense.

Mark
Ottawa

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Frankly if it was up to me the armament would be a RWS mounting a 35mm or 40mm in a self-contained turret, along with the 2 .50cals on each side. Not to mention test firing Hellfires, Javelins, etc from them

The same arguments being put forth are the same we heard when we introduced the concepts of Rescue Specialists onboard Coast Guard ships. Many of the Seniors Officers were horrified at the thought of “Deck Apes” treating pregnant woman or putting a Rescue swimmer into the water. But now I doubt a Captain would want to sail without at least one RS aboard.
Crew turn over on the deck is fairly steady as they are not on contract. Working in the use of shipboard guns into the job description would prove to be interesting, but could also be taken over by a Fish cop, who only makes about $40-50,000 a year and could multi-task while onboard.
I suggest the heavy MG’s because as Sig Ops rightly points out a culture shift must occur and a large weapon system will have no value at this point. Even if they armed the ships next season it will mostly be for propaganda and training purposes. On the bright side DFO won’t be using them to shoot Marine mammals like they used to. (DFO did plan on mounting a .50cal in Georgia Strait to get rid of the nuisance Killer Whales and used to ram them as well)

Mark you are right, at least Byers knows a bit about the Arctic, nothing about the military. Byers is like wrestling with a pig in clean mud, Staples is like wrestling with a pig in a cesspool.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

Mounting a .50 maybe, when they said "armed" I was thinking somthing more substantial, in a turrret at least. But a.50, maybe.

You'd still need major cultural changes in the organization though to make it a standard for all ships.

Besides the culture shock, wouldn't there be a legal problem as the Coast Guard is not a law enforcement agency or something like that??

 

[Monsoon]

Colin P: At least it wasn't St Steve Staples  ;D (who doubtless would howl at any more guns for anyone).  Could not any weapons--and some sort of smallish cannon would be required for a real sovereignty role I think--be manned crewed by Navy personnel (reserves?) on some sort of secondment with other useful duties?  Pity in a way we don't have marines in the old shipboard sense.

I don't think the real difficulty would be in the operation of the weapons, but in training the organization to "do" use of force. Some degree of command and control is required, and the Coast Guard as a whole would need to be trained up on the employment of force in a domestic context.

 

[chrisf]

Besides the culture shock, wouldn't there be a legal problem as the Coast Guard is not a law enforcement agency or something like that??

It's a government agency. Government says they get guns, they get guns.

 

[MarkOttawa]

Colin P: Brilliant:

...Byers is like wrestling with a pig in clean mud, Staples is like wrestling with a pig in a cesspool.

But in the end both are porcine oinkers (I has a word starting with "wa" instead of "oi" in mind actually).

Mark
Ottawa

 

[canuck101]

Well Could they not setup a detachment of R.C.M.P that could deploy on the coast guard ships when they leave for Northern duties. They have the authority to arrest and could be training to fire the weapons.