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Navy Seeks Better Sleep For Crews With New Rest Guidelines, Special Glasses

dimsum

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Eye In The Sky said:
So, for someone like me, how would you describe what a 'watch' is it its not your duty period?  I see comments about stuff going on outside of your 'watch'...so I am alittle confused.

Wiki has a good description here:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watch_system

The RCN (and other Commonwealth navies) use the "traditional" or "1 in 2", depending on the department and situation.  When people start talking about "1 in 3" they are talking about the traditional with 3 sections.  "1 in 4", etc means traditional with 4 teams, etc.  That usually doesn't happen except for the watchkeepers if there are extras. 

If you're on a 1-in-3 or higher, you generally have to be awake and doing work during the day, with some ships allowing for a nap before the middle (mids) watch.  In 1-in-2, you're either on watch or off and can sleep then (other work depending). 

The "other" watches spoken of are things like Anchor watch, Special Sea Duty, which aren't really "watches" but special situations.  At anchor, you need less people so there's a reduced amount of people on watch, and SSD means that there's a specific job for each person (or in larger ships, 2 SSD watches) when needed, such as entering/leaving harbour, tough navigation passages, etc. 
 

Navy_Pete

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Eye In The Sky said:
So, for someone like me, how would you describe what a 'watch' is it its not your duty period?  I see comments about stuff going on outside of your 'watch'...so I am alittle confused.

To put it in perspective, there is an entire giant bulletin board on every ship that has the 'watch and station bill' posted to it. Basically everyone has about 20 different columns for all the different scenarios (RAS, flying stations, damage control, etc). In addition to that there is your normal departmental watch rotation. Then alongside there is the duty watch rotation. It's complicated enough that we regularly dry run different scenarios to make sure there aren't big gaping holes somewhere when you are doing two things at once (for instance, RAS during flying stations, or entering harbour with a force protection component).

Normally at sea while on watch you are working; on duty watches there are different positions split between a number of people, so you can either be 'on watch' (brow watchkeeper, quartermaster etc) or off watch but on board to respond to any emergencies, or generally available for some kind of activity that comes up.  There are also some senior folks on the duty watch (officer of the day, duty coxn etc) to manage/supervise and do regular rounds with their own set of responsibilities that don't have specific watches but have enough to do that they are generally pretty busy. Sometimes if there are an intersection of bad mojo and it's one of those days that means you are up for all of/the majority of the 24 hours sorting things out so you are generally off the next day.
 

Eye In The Sky

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Thanks for the replies and info gents.  Appreciated.

I thought if you weren't on watch you were 'off duty', but I can see it is not just that simple.  I really appreciate how easy it is for me compared to that.
 
J

jollyjacktar

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There's also drills and exercises too that encroach on your off watch hours including cleaning stations.  Or worse still, emergency stations, action stations that can cause havoc.  You're normally short of sleep, particularly when Sea Training are embarked.  It's go go go then, always waiting for the shoe to drop.
 

Eye In The Sky

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This sounds like a lot of fun!!

For those NCMs in the RCN who do not think this is fun, and are looking to serve but in a less 'fun' way, please see your PSO and ask about the OT program for AES Op.  As a Long Range Patrol AES Op, your sea duty allowance points transfer over to your aircrew allowance, you get spec pay, have min crew rests regulations, don't share a room with anyone or usually one other person at most (certain crew members get high priority for single rooms when they are available...such as the crew Lead AES Op; IAW our Sqn Orders, L/AES Ops get a single room before some of the Jnr Officers do  :nod:).

See your PSO today!  ;D
 
J

jollyjacktar

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I did, briefly, look at it when l was remustering from MP.  Eyesight and education, scuppered that avenue.  :(
 

Halifax Tar

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Eye In The Sky said:
This sounds like a lot of fun!!

For those NCMs in the RCN who do not think this is fun, and are looking to serve but in a less 'fun' way, please see your PSO and ask about the OT program for AES Op.  As a Long Range Patrol AES Op, your sea duty allowance points transfer over to your aircrew allowance, you get spec pay, have min crew rests regulations, don't share a room with anyone or usually one other person at most (certain crew members get high priority for single rooms when they are available...such as the crew Lead AES Op; IAW our Sqn Orders, L/AES Ops get a single room before some of the Jnr Officers do  :nod:).

See your PSO today!  ;D

You didn’t need t advertise the youth are already leaving on their own.

For the watch keepers a change in mentality in the daily routine of a ship at sea would be welcome I can imagine.
 

Colin Parkinson

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In the CCG , we used to do 6hr on, 6 off, then we went to a 12hr day, which crews liked. At the Hovercraft base it was 2x10hrs days, 24 off and then 2x14hr nights, then 4 days off. Basically a firefighter shift.

West coast buoy tenders generally kept the deck crew on a 12 hr day, with a dedicated crew doing the rotational watches. 28days on, 28 days off.
 

dimsum

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Halifax Tar said:
You didn’t need t advertise the youth are already leaving on their own.

Well, the AESOPs are losing people from retirements, releases, etc so maybe the advertising is needed!  :nod:
 

Eye In The Sky

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Dimsum said:
Well, the AESOPs are losing people from retirements, releases, etc so maybe the advertising is needed!  :nod:

Never pass up free advertising  ;D
 

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Halifax Tar said:
You didn’t need t advertise the youth are already leaving on their own.

For the watch keepers a change in mentality in the daily routine of a ship at sea would be welcome I can imagine.

On the return from my last sail there had been talks that we would run a trial on the straight eights watches, but due to shortages caused by sending home a 1 in 4 duty watch and other departures so late in the trip is never happened. What really shocked me(and shouldn't have in hindsight) was the huge resistance to change, or even the suggestion of it. The leadership spent their time looking for ways to make the plan fail rather than looking for ways to make it work.

Most shift work is done on eights or 12s, yet they weren't interested in hearing how shift workers outside the navy make it work. The idea that half the crew at minimum wouldn't eat at exactly 0700, 1200, and 1700 blew them away. The idea of sailors being spelled off for a few minutes for a quick lunch in the middle of the shift was impossible to accommodate, in spite of the fact they were already sending guys down for the same amount of time for smokes/coffee, or PT during watch. One of the worst reasons I heard for not wanting the change was the sailors would have too much time off at sea, again usually coming from the guys now working days and spending their 4 or more hours a day off sitting in the mess...

It was a rare moment of disgust with the navy for me, rather than looking at ways to give the sailors better rest they wanted the old familiar status quo(mostly day workers oddly enough ::) ).
 

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WeatherdoG said:
On the return from my last sail there had been talks that we would run a trial on the straight eights watches, but due to shortages caused by sending home a 1 in 4 duty watch and other departures so late in the trip is never happened. What really shocked me(and shouldn't have in hindsight) was the huge resistance to change, or even the suggestion of it. The leadership spent their time looking for ways to make the plan fail rather than looking for ways to make it work.

Most shift work is done on eights or 12s, yet they weren't interested in hearing how shift workers outside the navy make it work. The idea that half the crew at minimum wouldn't eat at exactly 0700, 1200, and 1700 blew them away. The idea of sailors being spelled off for a few minutes for a quick lunch in the middle of the shift was impossible to accommodate, in spite of the fact they were already sending guys down for the same amount of time for smokes/coffee, or PT during watch. One of the worst reasons I heard for not wanting the change was the sailors would have too much time off at sea, again usually coming from the guys now working days and spending their 4 or more hours a day off sitting in the mess...

It was a rare moment of disgust with the navy for me, rather than looking at ways to give the sailors better rest they wanted the old familiar status quo(mostly day workers oddly enough ::) ).

They would need to put on another meal for that to work properly, which would be easy enough to do if you changed the remar to add another cook and took a hard look at some of the food prep being done daily. (ie all the cookies etc). Straight 8s would be great; we suggested that as well but ran into the same resistance. Of course, at that point you are on a '1 in 3' so then are expected to do a bunch of other stuff in your off time, so the 1 in 2 with the off time being genuine off time (barring emergency repairs etc for the MSED) works pretty well.
 

Halifax Tar

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WeatherdoG said:
On the return from my last sail there had been talks that we would run a trial on the straight eights watches, but due to shortages caused by sending home a 1 in 4 duty watch and other departures so late in the trip is never happened. What really shocked me(and shouldn't have in hindsight) was the huge resistance to change, or even the suggestion of it. The leadership spent their time looking for ways to make the plan fail rather than looking for ways to make it work.

Most shift work is done on eights or 12s, yet they weren't interested in hearing how shift workers outside the navy make it work. The idea that half the crew at minimum wouldn't eat at exactly 0700, 1200, and 1700 blew them away. The idea of sailors being spelled off for a few minutes for a quick lunch in the middle of the shift was impossible to accommodate, in spite of the fact they were already sending guys down for the same amount of time for smokes/coffee, or PT during watch. One of the worst reasons I heard for not wanting the change was the sailors would have too much time off at sea, again usually coming from the guys now working days and spending their 4 or more hours a day off sitting in the mess...

It was a rare moment of disgust with the navy for me, rather than looking at ways to give the sailors better rest they wanted the old familiar status quo(mostly day workers oddly enough ::) ).

If Nelson didn't win at the Nile and Trafalgar with it, we don't need it now. 

We still blow whistles to tell people when to wake up and eat.  What did you expect ? 

My sarcasm isn't aimed at you just the situation in general.
 

Navy_Pete

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Like storing ship with a chaingang?

I expect our next iteration of the boarding party to look like this, but in tactical black. OPERATORS!

pike-team.jpg
 

Halifax Tar

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Navy_Pete said:
Like storing ship with a chaingang?

I expect our next iteration of the boarding party to look like this, but in tactical black. OPERATORS!

pike-team.jpg

There isn't much you can do about storing ship.  Until such time as we can go from the jetty to the fridges directly.  PRE/PRO had good set ups for storing ship.

As for that pic, I didnt think we were supposed to pics with visible faces for the new "enhanced" boarding party ?
 
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