Navy ballcaps in CADPAT

[ueo]

…and what would those be?

Go back a bit and read latest improvements on dress and ddeportment

 

[medicineman]

This will blow your mind, but in the navy they have had a Cox'n's Writer or Regulating Petty Officer to assist the CPO1 for decades at least.

The Command CWOs don't just carry the Commanders's briefcase and yell at people who forget to salute the staff car...

Most non-Navy Bases I've been on had "Assistant BCWO's", who were usually a senile NCO who's job, amongst others, were ensuring Base Duty NCO's were assigned/briefed/backstopped, did inspections on shacks in lieu of the BCWO, etc. Esquimalt, as you mentioned, there was a Regulating CPO that assisted the Base Chief that did that, and usually had a P1/P2 to do some of their day to day stuff - was usually a P1 that contacted me about being Duty WO, etc...they used to get mad at me for refusing to be called "POOD", since (a) I was a WO, not a PO1 and (b) am not/wasn't shit.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Yes, the other element chiefs have EAs as well. No other staff dedicated to them.

Most Base chiefs (at least in RCAF bases) also have EAs, but are usually Sgts or WOs, not MWOs.

Some RCAF Sqns have something similar, I’ve seen it called both SCWO EA or Tech Adj. They support the SCWO directly and the WCWO via the WCWO EA.

 

[da1root]

10 years later, I'm still miffed that Borden had created an official rule to say that navy members working on the base were not allowed to wear ball caps, even if they still belonged to a unit that wore ball caps. They HAD to wear a beret with their NCDs. Not sure if it's still a rule.

This finally got changed in 2016 sometime I think...my memory is failing at what year, but it was changed.

The CFRG "CWO" (put in brackets cuz they were a CPO) fought for Navy members at CFRG to be allowed to wear their ballcaps. The rule finally got changed and last time I was up in Borden I was still seeing Navy members in NCD's/NECU's wearing ballcaps.

 

[Eaglelord17]

How about for a revolutionary idea we get rid of the concept of a permanent defined elemental uniform and instead dress troops based off the unit they are posted to.

Posted to the Pet? Army DEU. Posted to HMCS Halifax? Navy Deu. Posted to Cold lake? Airforce deu. Just have your cap badge reflect your trade/regiment.

This whole, ‘always Navy/Army/Airforce’ special rule for me but not for thee crap is stupid, doesn’t promote unity, and makes us look like garbage.

 

[Good2Golf]

Logistik be like…

 

[Lumber]

How about for a revolutionary idea we get rid of the concept of a permanent defined elemental uniform and instead dress troops based off the unit they are posted to.

Posted to the Pet? Army DEU. Posted to HMCS Halifax? Navy Deu. Posted to Cold lake? Airforce deu. Just have your cap badge reflect your trade/regiment.

This whole, ‘always Navy/Army/Airforce’ special rule for me but not for thee crap is stupid, doesn’t promote unity, and makes us look like garbage.

Let's take it a step further.

I heard one about a CLDO who during an exercise with the Norwegians somehow managed to trade for a Norwegian uniform and proceeded to spend the rest of the exercise wearing the Norwegian uniform instead.

 

[dimsum]

How about for a revolutionary idea we get rid of the concept of a permanent defined elemental uniform and instead dress troops based off the unit they are posted to.

Posted to the Pet? Army DEU. Posted to HMCS Halifax? Navy Deu. Posted to Cold lake? Airforce deu. Just have your cap badge reflect your trade/regiment.

This whole, ‘always Navy/Army/Airforce’ special rule for me but not for thee crap is stupid, doesn’t promote unity, and makes us look like garbage.

How about the folks in the NCR, CFRG, or OUTCAN? Those aren’t always (or usually) element-defined positions.

What happens if an infantry officer gets posted out of trade to be (for example) LO to an RCN unit - do they wear whites and be called LCdr?

 

[Lumber]

How about the folks in the NCR, CFRG, or OUTCAN? Those aren’t always (or usually) element-defined positions.

What happens if an infantry officer gets posted out of trade to be (for example) LO to an RCN unit - do they wear whites and be called LCdr?

Simple. Everyone in Ottawa wears the SOF DEUs.

For the latter, yes. Infantry officers work very hard and deserve the promotion.

 

[Halifax Tar]

How about for a revolutionary idea we get rid of the concept of a permanent defined elemental uniform and instead dress troops based off the unit they are posted to.

Posted to the Pet? Army DEU. Posted to HMCS Halifax? Navy Deu. Posted to Cold lake? Airforce deu. Just have your cap badge reflect your trade/regiment.

This whole, ‘always Navy/Army/Airforce’ special rule for me but not for thee crap is stupid, doesn’t promote unity, and makes us look like garbage.

I feel like you and Hellyer would have been good drinking buddies.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Logistik be like…
View attachment 80166

They would be the only winner in that world.

 

[Halifax Tar]

This finally got changed in 2016 sometime I think...my memory is failing at what year, but it was changed.

The CFRG "CWO" (put in brackets cuz they were a CPO) fought for Navy members at CFRG to be allowed to wear their ballcaps. The rule finally got changed and last time I was up in Borden I was still seeing Navy members in NCD's/NECU's wearing ballcaps.

Ya Ive been up there a few times since 2016 and always wore my ball cap.

Incidentally that CPO you mention was a Sup Tech, if I remember correctly

 

[Quirky]

This whole, ‘always Navy/Army/Airforce’ special rule for me but not for thee crap is stupid, doesn’t promote unity, and makes us look like garbage.

Our DEUs, or bus driver uniforms, makes us look like garbage on a good day. Then you see someone who’s obese or just has a poor fitting tunic and they look like hot garbage.

 

[Eaglelord17]

I feel like you and Hellyer would have been good drinking buddies.

I’ve worn both Army and Navy uniforms at this point. The special rule system we have is stupid and pointless.

I don’t see the value in the tribalism we practice.

Unification could have worked if the CAF tried to make it work instead of sabotaging it every chance we got.

The Marines and the USN are a great example of how this type of relationship could work instead of our work against each other for ‘insert X groups’ benefit.

Logistik be like…
View attachment 80166

It really wouldn’t cost much more than it currently does. Its not like people are shifted elements that often. It just means those who spend significant amount of time outside there ‘element’ would be matched in appearance and issued kit. We likely spend more on people outgrowing their DEUs each year than what this would cost.

 

[FSTO]

The Marines and the USN are a great example of how this type of relationship could work instead of our work against each other for ‘insert X groups’ benefit.

That's because the Marines and USN have over 200 years of working together and that both are under the same department. USMC is likely the only entity in the world that is considered a separate service where in other nations their marines are integral part of their navy.

Hellyer tried to shoe horn 3 completely different cultures who had very little experience working together into one cohesive force in a 3 year period. Then the arsehole left. It was never going to work.

 

[Eaglelord17]

That's because the Marines and USN have over 200 years of working together and that both are under the same department. USMC is likely the only entity in the world that is considered a separate service where in other nations their marines are integral part of their navy.

Hellyer tried to shoe horn 3 completely different cultures who had very little experience working together into one cohesive force in a 3 year period. Then the arsehole left. It was never going to work.

Service before self.

The tribalism and will we possess to self sabotage the project didn’t help either.

It could still work, we only need to have the desire to put our national interests above our personal ones. Instead we focus on buttons and bows and argue about whose more important rather than what we need to actually accomplish.

Now we have a bastardized system which is neither fish nor fowl and arguably the worst of both worlds.

 

[GR66]

The Marines and the USN are a great example of how this type of relationship could work instead of our work against each other for ‘insert X groups’ benefit.

It's not always unicorns and rainbows between the USN and USMC. The ongoing fight between them over fleet composition is just one example.

 

[Good2Golf]

It really wouldn’t cost much more than it currently does. Its not like people are shifted elements that often. It just means those who spend significant amount of time outside there ‘element’ would be matched in appearance and issued kit. We likely spend more on people outgrowing their DEUs each year than what this would cost.

Maybe go back and re-read your post and keep particular note of the part where you say…

…dress troops based off the unit they are posted to.

Posted to the Pet? Army DEU. Posted to HMCS Halifax? Navy Deu. Posted to Cold lake? Airforce deu.

Anyone either in a joint MOSID, or in an environmental MOSID that can support multiple environments from different joint locations, may be required to change DEUs dependent on the posted unit they end up in post-APS. As a green aviator posted to blue, green and dark blue bases numerous times I would have had at least nine (9) uniform changes across all three DEUs under your scheme. Perhaps higher than average, but the cost of your scheme is most certainly more than ‘it currently does.’

 

[Halifax Tar]

I’ve worn both Army and Navy uniforms at this point. The special rule system we have is stupid and pointless.

I don’t see the value in the tribalism we practice.

Unification could have worked if the CAF tried to make it work instead of sabotaging it every chance we got.

The Marines and the USN are a great example of how this type of relationship could work instead of our work against each other for ‘insert X groups’ benefit.

There is a difference between tribalism and organizational pride. If you want to see what happens when people have no sense of belonging or organizational pride look no further than the CAF Log Branch. And your plan would do that to the whole CAF.

If unification was such a good idea it would have been copied by our allies. And it wasn't.

The USMC and USN parent child relationship doesn't support your supposition. While USN folks are employed with the USMC (Corpsmen being the best example) they retain their status as sailors in the USN and uniforms with the exception that their work dress / combats are the same as the USMC, with naval insignia. Which is what we do now. For all the years I was with the Army I wore combats to work, with naval insignia, and my Naval DEUs on parade, and I was always addressed with my RCN rank.

The USMC is also constantly fighting for a reason to exist, for which they heavily rely on their past accomplishments for. In reality, they could disappear and the US Armed Forces wouldn't lose any capability. Littoral and amphibious ops could still be conducted using the USN and US Army. And the USMC doesn't man naval artillery anymore or conduct boarding's.

 

[FSTO]

^^
We could make it work if there was a coherent foreign policy that would guide the establishment of a military force to support that policy. Then a procurement, recruitment, training, and deployment plan that would survive a change in government. And most important a cadre of ministers who actually gave two shits about foreign and defence policy. Since we have none of those we muddle and fight amongst ourselves.

TBH, in 1968 Hellyer should have photocopied the USN/USMC team and kept the RCN, turned the Army into the RCMC and made the RCAF Naval Aviation and Army support aviation.