Naval Combat Dress (NCD) uniform [Merged]

[CorporalMajor]

That was a bad move the first time around.  How about a fourth uniform for purple trades - anyone up for wearing a purple tunic?  ;D

It would also mean, purple berets, purple linings on tags, purple undershirts.

Hmmm.

 

[gwp]

You are maybe overlooking the presence of NRD's throughout the major inland cities. None of the sailors at those units should be wearing CADPAT and are supposed to be the Naval presence in the inland cities. Granted, they are typically only working one or two evenings a week but that image problem in inland areas is the reason why there are NRD's in places like Saskatoon and Calgary.

Not overlooking it at all.  Every sailor has a stake in the public presence of the Canadian Navy everywhere in Canada.  The Command and Formation Cheifs can't be everywhere to jack people up.  Every sailor needs to take a stand ... that unless you are crawling in the mud ... "sailors don't wear cadpat"

The Navy does not want their personnel wearing CADPAT, just for the sake of wearing it. Obviously, if a Navy member is deployed, or employed in field work, where they are down in the dirt, crawling around on their bellies, or requires the camouflage elements of the kit, then it's required. For instruction duty in the field, on the range, etc, it is not required...

 

[Radar114]

I'm glad that the NCDs don't turn green or purple anymore when they fade out.

 

[tabernac]

Now with RMC getting a new Commandant in September, who just happens to be of the Naval variety, I wonder if that means all NCdts will no longer be forced to wear CADPAT.

 

[Monsoon]

I was referring to the over-complication of the design. Every seam costs money, and there are far too many of them. Pockets within pockets, complicated pockets, interior pockets that nobody uses, tabs for flags

They all have reasons for being there - and those reasons are founded in the fundamental purpose of CADPAT being an order of dress for people working in field environments. Rather than customizing CADPAT so that it can be cheaply issued to people working offices (at the expense of the pockets 'n stuff that the combat arms guys need), why don't we just wear office clothing in offices? It's not like the CF stopped issuing DEUs when they came up with CADPAT.

I'm sure the Sergeants-Major out there can repress the bile that rises to their throats at the sight of someone wearing Air Force or Navy DEUs.

 

[Loachman]

They all have reasons for being there - and those reasons are founded in the fundamental purpose of CADPAT being an order of dress for people working in field environments. Rather than customizing CADPAT so that it can be cheaply issued to people working offices (at the expense of the pockets 'n stuff that the combat arms guys need), why don't we just wear office clothing in offices? It's not like the CF stopped issuing DEUs when they came up with CADPAT.

No, they don't all have reasons for being there - certainly not logical ones, anyway.

Most of what I am talking about is irrelevant to the utility of the uniform as combat dress. Combat Arms guys do not need the current pockets  on the chest or the interior breast or lower interior pockets, and nobody needs the flag tab.

Look at the US Army ACU or Marine uniforms to see a much more practical design.

The breast pockets on combat clothing are vestiges from the olive green version, and they existed to carry twenty-round FN magazines (a stupid idea to begin with. The box design is complicated and expensive to produce. It is useless for those wearing body armour and tac vests. The buttons are uncomfortable when wearing body armour. The interior pocket is also inaccessible when wearing body armour and tac vests, and stitching a pocket on either side of a single piece of fabric is especially complex and expensive. The US pockets are flat and close with velcro. While some advocate that the lower pockets on our combat clothing be done away with as the Americans have done, due to the body armour/tac vest issue, I find them useful but again, the design could be simplified and the interior pockets dispensed with. Nobody here has them in their AR CADPAT, as they've been removed and sewn onto the sleeves, something that should be standardized.

The flag tab contributes nothing to the combat utility either. Velcro patches are stitched to the sleeve pockets on the AR combat clothing, and various patches are attached to them. The US ACU uses this. Dispense with the tab, move the sleeve pockets a little higher than they are (mine interfere with bending my arm if I have anything in them) and put the flag on velcro stitched to the pocket flap.

Again, if we are going to wear rank insignia in the centre of the visible mass, just stick a square patch onto velcro as per the name tape. It's simpler and cheaper to produce than slip-ons and buttoned tabs, and there's no button to be pushed into one's sternum.

See MedTech's post above as well.

I would never push for a CADPAT version of Garrison Dress as you seem to think that I am. I am suggesting, however, a more practical field uniform that reflects the reality of our current and likely future combat operations, that would also end up costing less to produce.

 

[CountDC]

It would also mean, purple berets, purple linings on tags, purple undershirts.

Hmmm.

Then we can have  a vote for our HCol - Prince or Donnie Osmond - king of the purple socks.

 

[PMedMoe]

Then we can have  a vote for our HCol - Prince or Donnie Osmond - king of the purple socks.

And, of course, there's always......

Try and lose that dinosaur nickname now!  ;D

 

[Messmom]

Well, the pics are finally up at the NICE site and they don't look too bad.

BUT!!!

There is always a but, the name tapes have got to go. Navy/Marine sewn into the tape? I have no interest in answering the question I will be asked most. Wether I am in the Navy or the Marines. And you KNOW that is what most civies are going to think.

Last name with a fouled anchor either side of it. Loose the Navy/Marine.

 

[Snakedoc]

There are some pictures up on this thread (I believe pg6):

http://forums.navy.ca/forums/threads/79706.90.html

I've personally become a fan of the 'camou' style that both the US and Royal Australian Navy's are moving towards (pictures of both also in the thread link).

 

[Messmom]

Camo? For what purpose? What do we have to blend into? Ship side grey? Mess deck red?

Camo on sailors makes absolutely zero sense. About as much sense as the Air Force wearing it.

 

[Sailorwest]

Camo? For what purpose? What do we have to blend into? Ship side grey? Mess deck red?

Camo on sailors makes absolutely zero sense. About as much sense as the Air Force wearing it.

I agree. no value at all in having another set of uniform with a pointless camoflague pattern just to avoid having to wear NCD's in non-sea going roles. I thought the point was to minimize the number of orders of dress that need to be maintained.

 

[Sailorwest]

Well, the pics are finally up at the NICE site and they don't look too bad.

BUT!!!

There is always a but, the name tapes have got to go. Navy/Marine sewn into the tape? I have no interest in answering the question I will be asked most. Wether I am in the Navy or the Marines. And you KNOW that is what most civies are going to think.

Last name with a fouled anchor either side of it. Loose the Navy/Marine.

I agree. Who came up with that idea and to what end? Is the answer to developing a better naval identity in this country to put our organization's name on our jackets? Should we also do that on our DEU as I have had numerous questions about what organization I belong to while wearing that kit. Will our Air Force and Army comrades have to have the same added to their name tapes?

 

[aesop081]

About as much sense as the Air Force wearing it.

Yeah because the AF doesnt have to fly things over land or fix helicopters in the field eh ?

How about aircrews having to abandon their aircraft over hostile territory ? They would do just fine in bright blue uniforms wouldn't they ?

 

[Sailorwest]

Yeah because the AF doesnt have to fly things over land or fix helicopters in the field eh ?

How about aircrews having to abandon their aircraft over hostile territory ? They would do just fine in bright blue uniforms wouldn't they ?

Well, what uniform would you be wearing when you're flying over water or have to fix helicopters on a ship?

 

[Sub_Guy]

Will our Air Force and Army comrades have to have the same added to their name tapes?

No, I highly doubt I need to add Air Force to my name tape, I think the wedge and "flying" suit is a dead giveaway as to what I do. 

 

[Teflon]

Most of us in the Army side of the house don't need to look at our name tapes to remember what element we are in (and the crossed swords are there for the few who do)

 

[aesop081]

Well, what uniform would you be wearing when you're flying over water or have to fix helicopters on a ship?

Because the Air Det never goes to work ashore right ?

Camo. Works in all situations.

 

[hugh19]

I agree cam working uniform for the air force makes sense, hence why most countries do it. But for sailors please f@%$ off with it unless we are in the field. We are sailors not soldiers.

 

[gwp]

MARGEN May 8
1.  A NEW VERSION OF NAVAL COMBAT DRESS IS IN PRODUCTION. THE
CURRENT NAVAL COMBAT DRESS ENSEMBLE PROVIDED TO ENTITLED PERSONNEL
IAW REF SCALE OF ISSUE FOR NAVAL OPERATIONAL CLOTHING WILL BE
REPLACED ON AN ATTRITION BASIS THROUGH FAIR WEAR AND TEAR.  STOCK OF
THE NEW VERSION NAVAL COMBAT DRESS WILL SOON BE RECEIVED BY
BASE/WING/AREA SUPPORT UNIT CLOTHING STORES.  THIS MESSAGE IS
DIRECTION FOR THE INTRODUCTION OF THE NEW NAVAL COMBAT DRESS
2.  THE NEW NAVAL COMBAT DRESS WILL BE ISSUED SUBJECT TO STOCK/SIZE
EXHAUSTION OF THE PREVIOUS NAVAL COMBAT DRESS.  THE NEW NAVAL COMBAT
DRESS CONSISTS OF THE FOLLOWING ITEMS:
A.  SHIRT, UNISEX, NAVAL COMBAT
B.  JACKET, UNISEX, NAVAL COMBAT
C.  TROUSERS, MENS, NAVAL COMBAT
D.  SLACKS, WOMENS, NAVAL COMBAT
3.  BASE/WING/ASU CLOTHING STORES ARE TO CONTINUE ISSUE OF THE
EXISTING STOCK OF SUPERSEDED NCD ITEMS UNTIL SIZING STOCK IS
EXHAUSTED, AND THEN COMMENCE ISSUE OF NEW VERSION NCDS
4. WEARING OF SUPERSEDED AND NEW VERSION ITEMS TOGETHER IS
PERMITTED.  FOR EXAMPLE, WEARING OF SUPERSEDED JACKET VERSION WITH
NEW VERSION PANTS