NATO response to Russian sabre rattling

[CougarKing]

A "trip-wire" battalion in each Baltic state's capital?

Military.com

Baltic Nations Request Permanent NATO Troop Presence
Associated Press | May 14, 2015

VILNIUS, Lithuania -- The three Baltic countries -- Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania -- are asking NATO to permanently deploy ground troops to their nations as a deterrent against an increasingly assertive Russia.

The countries' defense chiefs requested a brigade-size unit of NATO troops -- one battalion of 700-800 troops in each country -- in a joint letter this week to the supreme allied commander in Europe, said Capt. Mindaugas Neimontas, a spokesman for Lithuania's chief of defense.

"It is necessary because of the security situation," Neimontas told The Associated Press on Thursday. "It's not getting better in our region, so it will be a deterrent."
The Baltic countries -- former Soviet republics that regained independence amid the collapse of the Soviet Union over two decades ago -- have been alarmed by Moscow's intervention in Ukraine and the increasing activity of Russian forces in the Baltic Sea.

(...SNIPPED)

 

[daftandbarmy]

A "trip-wire" battalion in each Baltic state's capital?

Military.com

I used to be part of a brigade like that deployed to arctic Norway.

There I learned that 'tripwire' meant 'make sure that someone from several NATO countries is killed by the Russkies so they can use that as an excuse to drag their (somewhat hesitant) home countries into a major conflict'.

Not sure if that's such a good idea these days....

 

[MilEME09]

Crazy Idea but maybe bring back the CAST idea for the rapid response force this situation, works well for todays politicians cause its a token move really. I would also move for NATO to scrap the conventional forces in Europe treaty since Russia hasn't been practicing it since 2004.

 

[Old Sweat]

Crazy Idea but maybe bring back the CAST idea for the rapid response force this situation, works well for todays politicians cause its a token move really. I would also move for NATO to scrap the conventional forces in Europe treaty since Russia hasn't been practicing it since 2004.

Back when CAST was first announced, the troops began to refer to it as "Hong Kong Mark Two."

 

[Kirkhill]

Back when CAST was first announced, the troops began to refer to it as "Hong Kong Mark Two."

So maybe you don't do it the same way.....  CAST had no sovereign sea lift that could be held at notice to move for evacuation.  So some type of military transport would be useful.

 

[MilEME09]

So maybe you don't do it the same way.....  CAST had no sovereign sea lift that could be held at notice to move for evacuation.  So some type of military transport would be useful.

Reason to buy one of those Mistrals?

 

[Old Sweat]

So maybe you don't do it the same way.....  CAST had no sovereign sea lift that could be held at notice to move for evacuation.  So some type of military transport would be useful.

Actually the commonly held belief was that by the time came to think of evacuation, it would have been too late.

It is my belief, which can be incorrect, that the task was hauled out of the political butt to get out of reinforcing the Central Front without much military input in the planning process. Press releases included statements to the effect that the host nation will be responsible for providing air defence, air support, casualty evacuation, certain logistics support and some other fairly important stuff. When I was in the plans shop in NDHQ, I learned that they had said they could not do it, but we passed it to them it anyway in our political rush to get out of the Central Front.

 

[Kirkhill]

Oh what would you know?  Just because you were in the Plans Cell..... 

Thanks for that.

 

[daftandbarmy]

So maybe you don't do it the same way.....  CAST had no sovereign sea lift that could be held at notice to move for evacuation.  So some type of military transport would be useful.

I was in Norway the year Canada announced they were getting out of the 'CAST' business.

The response was decidedly 'meh' largely because our giant best friends, the good ol' US of A, were there propping up the whole shoddy, semi-committed (except for the British) Euro-structure with some real punch.

You know, as per SOP. Sadly.

 

[MilEME09]

Obviously for something like CAST to work, it would mean having the resources to move personal and equipment, the political will to back it, and of course troops, some possible prepositioned at a central location in the Baltic states.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That will happen right about the time we stop relying on big brother 'Merica to save us every time and protect our waters and airspace on our own.

When did the US 'save us' and from whom?

Odd, I have never heard of the US patrolling our soverign airspace or territorial waters, or bumped into them while I was doing that.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Oh please. If you think that we are single-handedly protecting Canadian territory without relying on any U.S. Military resources....

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Well there is that whole NORAD thing which was amended to include maritime approaches.  Anything else to add other than smug vague comments?

:

 

[MilEME09]

ahem*

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=fb21432a-1d28-415e-b323-ceb22d477732&k=69493

old article but still valid, and I highly believe the US regularly patrols the arctic with sub's, cause we can't.

 

[vonGarvin]

[back to the original topic]
In spite of all the grandiose sabre rattling in Moscow, the Baltics, etc, I have a feeling that Russia is pulling a "Verdun" on this one.  But not "Verdun as it happened" but rather "Verdun as it was supposed to happen".  In short, they send in just enough and do just enough to get our attention.  Then we over react and send in much, much more. 

Witness us, little old Canada.  Of our meagre CF 18 air fleet, one half of our deployed strength is in Eastern Europe, along with Army sub units and so on. US forces are exercising there, and there are calls for more permanent presence, especially in the Baltics.

So, if that were the case, that Russia is only dripping in enough for us to deploy to Eastern Europe in strength, what ought to be our response?  Especially since the aim would be to open up something (or somewhere) else?

 

[Ostrozac]

Odd, I have never heard of the US patrolling our soverign airspace or territorial waters, or bumped into them while I was doing that.

But I do remember when Canadian jets patrolled US airspace -- back when the entire F-15 fleet was grounded.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/canadian-fighter-jets-temporarily-fill-in-for-u-s-air-defences-1.635315

It's an alliance. We help each other out all the time.

 

[The Bread Guy]

[back to the original topic]
In spite of all the grandiose sabre rattling in Moscow, the Baltics, etc, I have a feeling that Russia is pulling a "Verdun" on this one.  But not "Verdun as it happened" but rather "Verdun as it was supposed to happen".  In short, they send in just enough and do just enough to get our attention.  Then we over react and send in much, much more. 

Witness us, little old Canada.  Of our meagre CF 18 air fleet, one half of our deployed strength is in Eastern Europe, along with Army sub units and so on. US forces are exercising there, and there are calls for more permanent presence, especially in the Baltics.

So, if that were the case, that Russia is only dripping in enough for us to deploy to Eastern Europe in strength, what ought to be our response?  Especially since the aim would be to open up something (or somewhere) else?

Good point - what do you see as THE prize for the Russians, then?

 

[McG]

I recall reading in an article that we ended the Baltic air mission about a month ago.

 

[vonGarvin]

Good point - what do you see as THE prize for the Russians, then?

I don't know.  Maybe pulling China (who owns a significant portion of our debt) away to their sphere?  :dunno:

I recall reading in an article that we ended the Baltic air mission about a month ago.

True.  But now we're sending trainers to Ukraine, and I think still participating in exercises in East Europe.

 

[Kirkhill]

I don't know.  Maybe pulling China (who owns a significant portion of our debt) away to their sphere?  :dunno:

True.  But now we're sending trainers to Ukraine, and I think still participating in exercises in East Europe.

Maybe the question is:  What does  China get out of this?

Russian agression slows the Asian Pivot to China's advantage