Measuring Physical Fitness (Split: CF weighs releasing combat wounded soldiers)

[blacktriangle]

The CDS directive is great, but depending where you are, it is either unheard of, or ignored.

The reserve side is another whole story, but I will say this: If a Class A soldier that parades once a week while balancing his non-military life can find a way to meet PT standards, there should no excuse for those that have chosen to make the CF a full time career.

As to whether our standards even mean anything... I will leave that to people that know "what it takes" to succeed on operations. But I'd sure like to see everyone make the minimum as a start.  ;D

 

[Jarnhamar]

ROFL

Well, I like the kind of model that holds not only the individual responsible, but also the chain of command.  Should our Pl Comd's, Coy OCs et al be held accountable for the physical fitness of their men, I would suspect there would be a very serious change in our fitness mentality. In this model, there would either be unit PT or time made for individual PT to ensure that PER points are met. More importantly, soldiers would prevent injuries incurred in training and operations...

For sure.  Less people would slip through the cracks. More accountability for MIR commandos and sickies who are medical ass thorns too.

Yes, infantry should be at a different standard then other trades. Frankly, we are asked to do much much more then the other trades by our trade definition, our TORs. This one standard for all is well... Silly.

ETA: Completion of incomplete thoughts.

Medics are out along side the infantry. They need to be on the same level as infantry if you ask me. At least field medics (I'm not sure how their org works for who goes to the field and who doesn't).

With the amount of time Combat arms will be on operations (say out for a week or a month at a time) we all have to have a higher standard since overall fitness will play a large roll when it comes to fatigue.

I honestly PT should be on your own time for everyone, always. Meet up once a week for sports or team building/group activity. Some places do this already but I'd like to see it happen more. Don't make attendance mandatory etc. One year later, fitness test people and kick anyone that fails the hell out! It's PERSONAL fitness for a reason, put the onus on the member.

CoC should have to give the time, member should have to give the effort...

Lots of *should's*. I absolutely love PT on my own and it feels like I get 300% gains with it over group PT.  Unfortunately way too many people would blow PT off for that extra hour or hour and a half in the morning.
-they could probably still reach the BFT standard and
-There doesn't seem to be any real repercussion for people who are grossly unfit. 
We can say "kick someone out who doesn't pass" but we know this is the CF and the chances of that happening are pretty slim.

The CDS Guidance to Commanding Officers (mandatory reading for EVERY CO), para 2203b reads (emphasis mine):

"Seek out every opportunity for CF members to include exercise in their work routines. The mantras of “fitness on your own time” or “we don’t have time for fitness” are to be eliminated. Given what we know of the power of daily fitness to increase morale, reduce stress, and improve work performance, it is incumbent upon us to be innovative in our approach when a formal fitness routine is impractical."

It sounds like he is viewing fitness "on your own time" not as someone taking a work out routine and following it for custom fitness goals but in the context of people skipping PT.

The ol class B I worked out at home line.

 

[aesop081]

but in the context of people skipping PT.

It was intended as counter to "PT should be done outside normal duty hours as it interferes with unit activities" that you find in some areas of the CF.

Unfortunately, that is sometimes easier said than done, given the type of work being done in some units.

 

[Haggis]

That "CDS guidance to COs" has over 2203 paragraphs suggests the CDS needs to take a long, hard look at all the crap and BS that's being force-fed down the throats of our COs.

The document is only 76 pages.  I've seen parade instructions with more detail.

The CDS directive is great, but depending where you are, it is either unheard of, or ignored.

I'd say that it's probably ignored.  It's clearly not unheard of as it is a command prerequisite that all COs, Reg F and P Res, read it and complete a certification that they have done so prior to being appointed as a CO.  (Whether they actually do read it is a different issue, but by completing the certification they can be held accountable for contravening it.)  Within NDHQ, where CF members routinely work for civiilians, it is widely held that this direction does not apply to civilian Directors/DGs as they are not CO's, per se (i.e. they do not have the powers of a CO under the NDA).

The reserve side is another whole story, but I will say this: If a Class A soldier that parades once a week while balancing his non-military life can find a way to meet PT standards, there should no excuse for those that have chosen to make the CF a full time career.

The standard is not that high and there are other threads that dissect this in excruciatingly gory detail.  I completed a BFT and scored exempt on my EXPRES test while suffering from what I thought was a "chest cold".  Turned out it was pneumonia.

 

[Pusser]

It was intended as counter to "PT should be done outside normal duty hours as it interferes with unit activities" that you find in some areas of the CF.

Unfortunately, that is sometimes easier said than done, given the type of work being done in some units.

I am not convinced that as an organization, we have done enough in this area.  I think too many parts of the CF have simply looked at their current tasks and their current manpower and said we can't accommodate PT.  Instead, they should have looked into perhaps treating PT as another operational task (which it is) and reduced other tasks accordingly.  The problem is that PT is not high enough on the priority list and is too easily bumped.

 

[aesop081]

I am not convinced that as an organization, we have done enough in this area.  I think too many parts of the CF have simply looked at their current tasks and their current manpower and said we can't accommodate PT.  Instead, they should have looked into perhaps treating PT as another operational task (which it is) and reduced other tasks accordingly.  The problem is that PT is not high enough on the priority list and is too easily bumped.

I pretty much agree. Its just doesn't seem to be an "institutional value".

I don't see tasks ever decreasing, no matter what we are trying to fit in as another task though. Admittedly, some tasks are un-reduceable. I have already seen where troops work 16-hour days (with no way around it). Even the most stoic CO will not be able to make it 17 hours and still give the troops "off" time and that "off" time is, in certain environments, a legal requirement.

Changing the culture and putting the onus on individuals is, IMHO, a more workable solution than blanket direction from on high.