MCDVs and future usage

[Ex-Dragoon]

Its been speculated and suggested here that once the AOPs come online, the the Kingston class may be removed from service. I have a suggestion that would not cost a lot of money.

I am wondering if we could station 1 or 2 per major port and use them as force protection ships. 40mm and 2x12.7s would be a very good deterent during troubled times such as this. to inspect ships, we could embark a combined police(RCMP)/customs/CCG and NBP.

Thoughts?

 

[stegner]

Sounds good in principle.  But their slow speed is a tactical disadvantage should it have to face off against some terrorist speedboats in a Canadian harbour.  I would maybe fix some Javellin's as well to compensate.  But it is better than nothing. 

 

[Rodahn]

But their slow speed is a tactical disadvantage should it have to face off against some terrorist speedboats in a Canadian harbour. 

Granted they may be slow, but let said speedboats outrun the aforementioned 40mm, or twin .50's....

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Granted they may be slow, but let said speedboats outrun the aforementioned 40mm, or twin .50's....

Concur..not to mnetion the training, maintenance and storage areas having missiles onboard for a force protection vessel might entail.

 

[Klinkaroo]

Also who is going to man them as patrol vessels? The CCG will never want to man an armed vessel... they got a darn good union for that and the RCMP don't have the manning or the expertise to man a ship of that size, same thing goes for Customs and other departments.

My Opinion is that we could strip the weapons off and transfer them to the CCG. Those would make good research platforms because it is a very maneuverable ship when it comes to towing equipment and stuff (that is what they were designed for, not patroling) or they could rig a crane for doing buoy maintenance and stuff again with those Z-Drives very maneuverable.

 

[DONT_PANIC]

Even when the aops come, I doubt that we will see the mcdvs vanish.  I think we will keep a few so that we don't loose (anymore) minewarefare capacity.  I'd guess we would leave two active and one down ship on each coast, with the rest of the crews going to the aops.  We still need the mcdvs for other things like mars iv training, so still plenty of reasons to keep them around.  Plus, getting rid of half the mcdvs leaves plenty of spare parts for the rest of them.

 

[HalfmyLife]

I believe there is a future for the MCDV's, and I like Ex-Dragoons idea. While the 40mm is plenty of fire power for that class of ship they will need to find a new mount for them (something stabilized). Also I think you will find in the near future that MARS IV training will be done on the ORCA's. rumour has it that DMTE has told Venture to get on with that.  Even though I know the first question you guys asked will be manning!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Adding a crane to handle a 9 tonne buoy, chain and anchor might not be that easy. Research vessel quite possibly, but I don't know if Navy accommodation would suffice for scientists!

If the Tories get a majority 2 times in a row I can see elements of the CCG being forced to be armed, even though it may just be .50cals on the ships. They have armed the border guards and now are working on the Park Wardens. The union will put up a fight but they could create a new organization to supplant some of the roles and add new ones. The harsh reality is that the only job the CCG does that could not be contracted out is SAR, buoy tending and Ice breaking could all be done by contract. You could see a CCG one day that does only SAR & enforcement.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Adding a crane to handle a 9 tonne buoy, chain and anchor might not be that easy. Research vessel quite possibly, but I don't know if Navy accommodation would suffice for scientists!

Ever see what their accomodations are like on the Quest?

 

[Stoker]

Also who is going to man them as patrol vessels? The CCG will never want to man an armed vessel... they got a darn good union for that and the RCMP don't have the manning or the expertise to man a ship of that size, same thing goes for Customs and other departments.

My Opinion is that we could strip the weapons off and transfer them to the CCG. Those would make good research platforms because it is a very maneuverable ship when it comes to towing equipment and stuff (that is what they were designed for, not patroling) or they could rig a crane for doing buoy maintenance and stuff again with those Z-Drives very maneuverable.

Aren't some of the Coast Guard ships armed with .50 Cal's for fisheries?
As for research the ships really do not have a lot of spare space for labs.
I know fleet diving unit would like to have one or two for DSIS ops and other ROV ops, perhaps they will be sent there.

 

[medaid]

I'd bet if you station 2 permanently in Vancouver and 2 permanently in Esquimalt on the West Coast it would to allot for Port Security and Force Protection. The current port security for the Port of Vancouver is... well you know.

Not to mention they can also patrol and interdict Delta Port as part of their regular patrol route. Assisting in SAR missions along with the Coast Guard and doing Drug/Smuggling interdiction with the RCMP and CBSA. Having a Joint Interdiction Task Force made up for NAVRES, RCMP and CBSA could be a viable step in the right direction when it comes to Port Security.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I'd bet if you station 2 permanently in Vancouver and 2 permanently in Esquimalt on the West Coast it would to allot for Port Security and Force Protection. The current port security for the Port of Vancouver is... well you know.

Not to mention they can also patrol and interdict Delta Port as part of their regular patrol route. Assisting in SAR missions along with the Coast Guard and doing Drug/Smuggling interdiction with the RCMP and CBSA. Having a Joint Interdiction Task Force made up for NAVRES, RCMP and CBSA could be a viable step in the right direction when it comes to Port Security.

Much like I said in the beginning of the topic.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Why not fit them out for delivering 'commandos'? With a few mods it looks like you could get a SDV or a RHIB on the back deck plus a folboat or two. Add an RPV capability, plus some of the other fancy new sensors they must have kicking around these days, and you're away to the races... in a covert manner, of course.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Why not fit them out for delivering 'commandos'? With a few mods it looks like you could get a SDV or a RHIB on the back deck plus a folboat or two. Add an RPV capability, plus some of the other fancy new sensors they must have kicking around these days, and you're away to the races... in a covert manner, of course.

Could work but remember their best speed is around 15 knots. Putt....putt......putt

 

[daftandbarmy]

Could work but remember their best speed is around 15 knots. Putt....putt......putt

Exactly... "Not by strength, By Guile"

 

[Stoker]

I'd bet if you station 2 permanently in Vancouver and 2 permanently in Esquimalt on the West Coast it would to allot for Port Security and Force Protection. The current port security for the Port of Vancouver is... well you know.

Not to mention they can also patrol and interdict Delta Port as part of their regular patrol route. Assisting in SAR missions along with the Coast Guard and doing Drug/Smuggling interdiction with the RCMP and CBSA. Having a Joint Interdiction Task Force made up for NAVRES, RCMP and CBSA could be a viable step in the right direction when it comes to Port Security.

Unfortunately a lot of Port Security are full of people who don't want to go to sea, especially in a MCDV. I agree the idea has its merits, however MCDV's already assist in SAR missions, RCMP and CBSA up the coast of BC.

 

[Klinkaroo]

Could work but remember their best speed is around 15 knots. Putt....putt......putt

And the speed is something we will have to live with because even if we put much stronger motors in the MCDVs the hull shape is just not designed for high speed maneuvers.

Aren't some of the Coast Guard ships armed with .50 Cal's for fisheries?
As for research the ships really do not have a lot of spare space for labs.
I know fleet diving unit would like to have one or two for DSIS ops and other ROV ops, perhaps they will be sent there.

Completely uneducated on the subject but from what I can gather from some sources if the CCG are armed they have RCMP officers on board arming them. It's not actually the CCG that has weapons it's the RCMP that
bring their own.
Please feel free to correct me on this one though

For the Lab part could they maybe embark some containers outfitted as labs?

 

[Rodahn]

Also I think you will find in the near future that MARS IV training will be done on the ORCA's. rumour has it that DMTE has told Venture to get on with that. 

Even the Orca'a are having some teething problems, the company where I work is hauling one out shortly due to problems with the cathodic protection system.

 

[Stoker]

And the speed is something we will have to live with because even if we put much stronger motors in the MCDVs the hull shape is just not designed for high speed maneuvers.

Completely uneducated on the subject but from what I can gather from some sources if the CCG are armed they have RCMP officers on board arming them. It's not actually the CCG that has weapons it's the RCMP that
bring their own.
Please feel free to correct me on this one though

For the Lab part could they maybe embark some containers outfitted as labs?

Its not actually the hull shape, its the length of the hull. I have been up to 19 knots on a MCDV. It was discussed that lengthening the hull was too costly due to the way the ship was built and where it was to be lengthened. The motors are actually pretty big, and putting in bigger ones would run into all sorts of problems.
As for the CCG, the fisheries have their own boarding parties and I think fisheries officers man the .50 Cal's.

 

[Mortar guy]

I have been up to 19 knots on a MCDV.

Wow. Was it going down hill at the time?

I think that with a stabilized weapon system, the MCDV is still very useful for inshore patrol (Georgia Strait, Gulf of St Lawrence, etc.) and harbour defence/mine sweeping. Besides, they are the best thing that ever happened to NAVRES.

MG