M134D MiniGun for CH-146 Griffons
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aesop081
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Strike said:
In Fairness, i know that YOU did but others reading this might not have.
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Strike said:
The escort role makes sense when you're talking about a package of Griffons. But what kind of differential in tactical speeds are we really talking about, between a heavy Griffon with a gun hanging in the breeze and a Chinook? I'd guess it's in the tens of knots, which is awful inconvenient. Maybe the main task of the Griffon would be protecting the airmobile force you just dropped (and the LZ, obviously), rather than the Chinooks themselves? A Chinook would usually be better served by flying 30+ kts faster, than by a Griffon with door gunners, me thinks.
And aren't our Chinooks supposed to be coming with many bells and whistles, and thus be doing a lot of their operational flying at night? This may be opsec, but is that big, blazing death-hose NVG-compliant? I know some crew stations on some other helicopters fire miniguns on NVGs, but what about in this installation? Would make a big difference.
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aesop081
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RCR Grunt said:
It only becomes a planning issue just as it does with fixed wing operations. Different types of aircraft with different speeds and capabilities operate together all the time, no biggie. I mean after all we manage to get fighters across the pacific by refueling them with a much slower C-130, i'm sure we can handle a few helos travelling at less than 100 kts.
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You can see and descriminate tgt's in NV -- once the minigun is rolling its like a laser at nigth with all the tracer - and the FE can walk the rounds over muzzle flashes till they all go away...
The US Army uses their FE's as aerial gunners - why would we want to reinvent the wheel?
Additional advantage to the CH146 and FMS (Foriegn Military Sale) Chinooks is they are not hard wired for gun mount, thus will use the battery pack setup for the Dillon -- thus removing one issue the US military has had with downed birds not being able to use their miniguns once the power is out in the bird.
The US Army uses their FE's as aerial gunners - why would we want to reinvent the wheel?
Additional advantage to the CH146 and FMS (Foriegn Military Sale) Chinooks is they are not hard wired for gun mount, thus will use the battery pack setup for the Dillon -- thus removing one issue the US military has had with downed birds not being able to use their miniguns once the power is out in the bird.
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I have actually fired a C-6 door gun, at night, on NVGs from a moving Sea King. It works rather well (and was a hoot!). The pilots weren't on googles, but did not overly mind the muzzle flash or the tracer. And don't let anyone tell you door guns are necessarily inaccurate- it takes practice. Certain flight profiles also greatly enhance the accuracy of the fire.
Cheers
I have routinely used a 5 million candle power white light while pilots are on NVG, and it enhances their view. I am sure if you are shooting at things that are trying to kill you, pilots won't be too concerned about some minor light pollution. ;D
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Here's a question, we're all focusing on the mini gun (which has LCF) but I wonder if anyone has compared the 7.62 chain gun (diemaco/colt canada) in the same role. lighter gun, allowing for FE but you still have ammo restrictions (not knowing specs for lift vs enviroment).
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Im Not Telling said:
Rate of fire is over ten times higher for a minigun.
When firing from a moving helicopter at altitude, that's significant.
Mounting a minigun does not require leaving the FE behind, even one of the larger ones.
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RCR Grunt said:
Yup, and by me, too, for one.
RCR Grunt said:
Precisely. The lift hels are most vulnerable at low altitude and low speed - like taking off and landing. During transit, they derive significant protection from speed and altitude, and that will continue to be true until such time as the Taliban acquire a meaningful anti-air capability.
"Escort" hels arriving a few minutes before the lift hels will have that time to do a quick scan to find those who don't consider us to be friends and do something about them. This is the same tactic used during the Kiowa/Twin Huey/Cold War era for pathfinding except that it's done from altitude rather than distance and there are no trees to hide behind.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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I see from a recent magazine article that Dillion (As in Dillion reloading presses) makes an upgraded mingun which has a variety of improvements, including the clearing of stoppages, which apparently could take a minigun out of service and require disassembly back at the hanger to clear them. Also the Dillion gun is 9lbs lighter and interrupts the ammo feed so rds are not wasted when you cease fire.
http://www.dillonaero.com/
http://www.dillonaero.com/
OldSolduer
Army.ca Relic
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Just a question:
If this comes to fruition, could you use an older soldier who'd love to man a minigun?
Hint hint! :
If this comes to fruition, could you use an older soldier who'd love to man a minigun?
Hint hint! :
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OldSolduer said:Just a question:
If this comes to fruition, could you use an older soldier who'd love to man a minigun?
Hint hint! :
OldSolduer.......Get to back of the line!!! Some of us retreads in TacHel are forming a line that is getting long.......... ;D
