Log Officers

[cameron_highlander]

I'm attempting to get into RMC as a Log Officer. So, if anyone on here is a Log Officer, or works with them etc etc who has info/experiences/pros/cons etc, I would appreciate it if you would post them. Thanks.

Specifically:
working environment
type of work
deployments
advancement
advanced course/taskings

I got the speech from CFRC, but hearing it from experienced log officers would be appreciated.

 

[Loggy001]

Hello Piper

I'm a log officer, but started my career as an infantry officer.

In terms of deployments we are going to be some of the very busiest people soon. My unit has 4 missions in the next 3 years. Odds are I will be deployed once or twice.

Logisticians do mainly 4 things, human resources, finance, supply, and transportation. We also do food services, postal, and ammunition. The big thing to remember is that we are not the sitting on the front line in a fox hole. We support the guy at the front lines to make sure he has everything he needs to fight. If you want the life of a bayonet you log isn't your world.

In terms of course we have too many to choose from. You have 7 different fields you can specialize in.

As for garrison work, its lots of administration sitting behind a desk, planning actives and etc.

 

[mudtrucker]

Piper:

I'll expand a bit on what Loggy001 wrote, although he's answered your questions very well.  I am a Army Log Officer as well, starting in the ranks and am now an Army Transport and Movements Officer.

Yes, we'll be amongst the busiest specialists in any expeditionary force, both in terms of operational as well as personnel tempo.  And we'll become collectively and individually more and more responsible for our own force protection responsibilities, especially as we become more and more involved in operations across the spectrum of conflict.  And the asymmetric (e.g. non-traditional) threat will become more and more prominent as we get involved in operations in failing/failed states.

As for the life of the bayonet, I am not going to completely agree with Loggy001 here.  Everyone, everywhere is now a target on deployed operations, and we are all much more responsible for force protection, individually and collectively.  The way we employ trades personnel like Truckers and Maintainers (not to mention the other support trades, who do a lot of the same protection tasks these days) nowadays means that they are often the ones manning the commander and air sentry cupolas as convoys of Bisons (armoured vehicles) and HLVWs (soft-skinned cargo vehicles), go racing through urban areas like Kabul, etc.  You go to places like Kabul nowadays and ask the trades personnel in Camp Julien if they are living the life of the bayonet and I dare say that they will say that, to a large degree, and especially on troop convoys to/from KIA, they are, every day.  And when you look at the Defence Policy that has just been published by the MND and CDS, guess what?  These are the types of operational environments that we are going to be going into.

Apart from the core trades and specialities that Loggy001 mentions, we also do Movements (air, land and sea), which is a great deal of fun (can you tell my bias? lol).  The thing is that we have a specialty that we are responsible for being masters of, and then we are required to be competent soldiers, both individually as well as collectively, in formed groups, right from sections up through platoons to companies, and ultimately to Battalions.  This is not to say that we are â Å“thereâ ? yet in terms of soldier-skills, but we are working on it and getting better.  We are a preferred target because we do not have the same range and amount of integral combat power that the line-apes do (and I say line-apes with the utmost respect, partially because I was one and partially because they deserve our respect).

So, in summary: I like being an Army Loggie because I get the best of both worlds - both being a trade specialist as well as a soldier.  It poses it's own unique challenges at times, but I have worn this uniform and served this country for 19 plus years as an Army Logistician, and would not change my choice for anything in the world.

Best of luck in joining the Army, going to RMC and becoming a Logistician (hopefully Army, but that's my bias showing again).  If you have any more questions, post them here and I am sure that someone will reply.

Mudtrucker

 

[Trinity]

The big thing to remember is that we are not the sitting on the front line in a fox hole.

The rest of us call that  'REMF'    :


Just teasing boys...  I was Log when I joined too... Sup Tech R911

 

[kincanucks]

Sorry to drag this back up, I get sworn in next Friday as a loggie ossifer for Civvie U ROTP (yay), I actually made up my mind on what I'm doing with the military.

I am now the ultimate REMF.   8)

On a more serious note, whats the MOC number for Log officers going into ROTP? I don't quite remember, but I believe I'll need to know it at some point. Thanks.  

78U

 

[mudtrucker]

Congrats, Piper.  Hopefully we'll be seeing you in one of the Battalions soon, after being suitably molded and abused by Gagetown and CFSAL, although your best training will come once in the Battalions, learning and listening.

Good luck.

Mudtrucker

 

[highlander871]

I have a question along these lines as well. I hope someone on here could help me
I'm currently a piper (MOC871) with a VOT in for clerk (MOC836)....now thing is, I've always wanted to be an officer. When I joined the army 6 years ago, I had the opportunity to take a co-op course and thats what I did. I figure if I'm going to stay in the army (after being screwed over for QL3 in 2 diff trades) I might as well do what I've always wanted to do: be an officer.
If I was still in high school, I might push for RMC, but after spending 6 yeas in the reserves and working the BOR on and off, and in coy HQ, i know how things work
So my question is: how difficult is it to be CFR from an NCM CSS trade to LogO, in an infantry unit? I'm going to school full time in the fall (after starting a degree at a American University right out of high school, then some college here in Ontario, I'm finally doing the school thing for good!) I realize that boards sit as needed in reserve units....
Now, I realize I would be an OCdt for a while, and I also know that the LogO positions in my unit are filled.....how willing would the unit be to let me be an OCdt, learn from them until I can get my training done, and maybe by then a position would be available....there's also another infantry unit in the same building that I wouldn't have second thoughts transferring to. Don't get me wrong, I love my unit but, hey, go where the money is, right?
Any advice would be great. I've talked to several officers (Levee is great for rubbing elbows!!!) but I don't know quite how to proceed......
Any help/ thoughts/ advice/ dissuasion's?

 

[Roy Harding]

...
Now, I realize I would be an OCdt for a while, and I also know that the LogO positions in my unit are filled.....how willing would the unit be to let me be an OCdt, learn from them until I can get my training done, and maybe by then a position would be available....there's also another infantry unit in the same building that I wouldn't have second thoughts transferring to. Don't get me wrong, I love my unit but, hey, go where the money is, right?
Any advice would be great. I've talked to several officers (Levee is great for rubbing elbows!!!) but I don't know quite how to proceed......
Any help/ thoughts/ advice/ dissuasion's?

Only your Adjt knows for sure.  Why don't you ask him - if you work in the BOR you must have fairly easy access to him.

 

[highlander871]

Our Adjt isn't in full time. Our Ops O is. And we don't stand to for another week.
Also, how do you think the officers would feel if all of a sudden this clerk that has worked for them, that they all know suddenly shows up in their mess (say, as an OCdt) how seriously would they take me? Thats why I think it would be best to transfer to the other unit....but I do love my unit (arguably biggest reserve infantry unit in the country )

 

[Roy Harding]

Our Adjt isn't in full time. Our Ops O is. And we don't stand to for another week.
Also, how do you think the officers would feel if all of a sudden this clerk that has worked for them, that they all know suddenly shows up in their mess (say, as an OCdt) how seriously would they take me? Thats why I think it would be best to transfer to the other unit....but I do love my unit (arguably biggest reserve infantry unit in the country )

One of my JR Clks CFR'd from MCpl to OCDT, in the middle of an operation.  It took us a week or two to get him out of there and back to Canada.  All the officers took him under their wing, and gave them their best advice.  I changed his title from "Forced Rest NCO" to "OIC Forced Rest", and became less forgiving of his minor errors - he carried on just fine, and has turned out to be a fine officer.

So wait a week, and ask your Adjt - this isn't a spur of the moment decision (I assume), and one more week won't kill you.

Sounds to me like you're looking for excuses NOT to do it.

 

[jonstarks]

I am currently in the ROTP program going through as a Log Officer.  I have no interest in doing finance or HR, I really want to do movements/transport/supply.  When I enrolled I was told that was not going to be a problem and I would just specialize in the area.  I have now heard some contradictions to that statement given to me by the recruiting office (which I now realize that they do not always give you the correct information) and that I will be put where I am needed, which makes sense.  I was wondering if someone could clear that up for me.  Also I am doing CAP this summer and Phase 3 next year.  I want to get deployed ASAP and I was told that after Phase 3 I am eligible for deployment.  Is this a wise decision to got after Phase 3?  One last question, I was wondering how often do Log Officers move with the convoys? 
Thanks

 

[QM]

I would be shocked if you were forced to go HR or Fin against your wishes.  The way the new system works (new for the past 3-4 years or so) is that upon completion of Log Phase IV, you are employed in a Svc Bn in a number of junior officer positions (Pl Comd, AO, A/Adjt, Asst Ops O, Asst Trg O, Int O, couple others).  The Svc Bn comprises a Tn Coy, a Maint Coy (Fd Wksp), a Sup Coy, an Adm Coy, and 2 x FSG Coys.  Note that there is no Fin Coy or HR Coy (Admin Coy does not equate to Clerk Coy - it has a Sup Pl, Tn Pl, Maint Pl, and HQ)!  You will in all likelihood work in a Supply or Transport Company, possible Admin Coy, and your platoon command tour will be of a Sup or Tn Platoon, regardless of which Company you work in.

After a year or two in the battalion, you will be asked which specialty you would like to pursue - Supply, Transport, Finance, or HR, and the battalion staff will make EVERY effort to slot you into the course you want.  So, what you want to do when you get to the Bn is kick and scream to become either a Supply Officer or a Transport Officer - the CO/DCO and your OC will get the picture, and try to slot you on the course you want, and employ you appropriately.

After a tour in one of the functional companies, you will likely get moved to an FSG - those are the guys who deploy overseas.

Bear in mind that even if things don't work out for you the first time, and you get stuck on, let's say the Finance course, that doesn't mean you will spend the rest of your career as a finance officer - you can do another course at any time and get posted into a Sup or Tn job as well.  But, like I said, it is highly unlikey that you would get slated into a course you dont' want - none of us Senior Log Offrs are trying to screw anyone around.

If you want to deploy, tell your Career Manager that you want to go to a Service Battalion - make a fuss about it.  Once you're in the Battalion, show us what you're made of and you'll have ample opportunity to go overseas.  Odds are, though, that you'll go nowhere until you've got Phase IV under your belt.

 

[a78jumper]

Take any course that is offered, the Branch gets very antsy about refusniks. Having said that I agree with QM, it is highly unlikely that you will be forced into HR or Fin if you make it know you really want to be a bin rat or a trucker. BGen Mark McQuillan started off as a Fin type before he crossed over to Sup, and I think he would agree that his Fin training and initial employment as such if my memory serves me correctly, stood him in good stead as he moved up the ranks.

One last question, I was wondering how often do Log Officers move with the convoys?-If you mean road moves, you will be intimately involved first at a pl level and then when your OC figures you have a clue you might get tasked with planning a company road move. I saw Log Officers often in Kabul leading their troops on moves, at least within the city. TN types will be more likely to be invoved with this, though I as a Suppy Officer also was tasked at time to move with my platoon or a smaller logistics entity. If this does not answer your question, please expand.

 

[jonstarks]

"I saw Log Officers often in Kabul leading their troops on moves, at least within the city."

Thank you that answers my question.  I want to be with the troops when doing the movements especially when overseas.  But I do have one last question.  Would you happen to know how long it would take to get deployed after I finish my Phase 4 log training?

Thank You

Support our Troops 

 

[George Wallace]

".......  But I do have one last question.  Would you happen to know how long it would take to get deployed after I finish my Phase 4 log training?

There is no answer to that question.  You can be posted to a Unit that is gearing up for a Tour and be sent over within months of your graduation and posting to that Unit.  You can be posted to a Unit that has just returned and wait years before seeing an opportunity to go.  You may be posted to a Lodger Unit or a Unit well removed from any such taskings and have very little opportunity to see a Tour.  Until you graduate and get posted, no one will be able to give you a clear answer to that question.

 

[jonstarks]

I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me how often a logistics transport officer would see action when posted overseas, possiblely in a place such as A-stan.  I know this is kind of a weird question, but I have been quite curious. 

Thanks

Support our Troops 

 

[a78jumper]

Transport (and supply) officers routinely accompany their troops on delivery operations of combat supplies, gen and tech stores and also participate in troop and ammo lift operations close to the locations of "combat" troops. Their role is not to actively engage the enemy, but if hit, fight their way out of the situation to deliver combat service support another day. Given the situation in Afghanistan, I would think the greatest likelihood of being "engaged" would involve suicide bombers, or less likely, an ambush by Taliban supporters. Their aim is not to engage any one for a long period, simply inflict the greatest damage possible, and withdraw to fight another day IMHO, so the likelyhood of a CSS officer being involved in a long drawn out firefight is small. BTW my Afghan experience was as an ex CSS officer serving as a contractor with the CF in Camp Julien-it was my feeling that I was most likely to encounter a situation ( as an unarmed non combatant) was via the suicide bomber route-my job on occasion required me to travel to the airport and Camp Warehouse, initially in soft skinned vehicles, and after the bomber that killed Cpl Murphy in Jan 04, in  armoured vehicles. Someone with more relevant and current info as a serving officer, help me out!!!

 

[cartwright]

This is a very informative thread since I am considering Log O-Land as a career.  The online logistics handbook is a wealth of information but it's a little dated.  Can anyone comment on Phase IV training for Log  O Land? 

How long is it?
Does it involve as much operational training as the handbook implies?
How often is it given?
With the ongoing debate about force protection capabilities for CSS, is there an increased focus on combat skills?

newbie appreciates the input

 

[a78jumper]

You would have to speak to someone more current than I.....though I suspect the Phase IV is quite similar to what the old LFFL course was; I taught on that twice.

As for force protection, given the "front line"  F Ech is now everywhere, ie the Taliban is just a capable as suicide bombing your rear as the location of the fighting troops I would hope some emphasis has been placed on this, but it comes down to a question of resources. When I was a Svc Bn Pl Comd I had three GPMGs, two Carl G's assigned to me-I never ever saw one of them fired on the range, nor did anyone really know how to employ them. In my whole career I fired a M72-ONCE! What I knew I read in a book. Most crew served weapon ammo we received in the Bn was traded away for more SA commodities as we did not even get enough of that to properly train and qualify our CSS soldiers. Look what happened when that US vehicle maintenance unit was bumped in Iraq and that Jessica what-ever-her name-was was captured, no one had a clue what to do. Don't get me wrong here, the role of CSS is not to enagage and destroy the enemy in all phases of war, simply to put up enough firepower to fight if necessary their way out of a nasty sit. To do that you need resources and training, something that has been sorely lacking in the past. Anyone more current than I speak out!!

 

[dapaterson]

CSS training is getting better on the Army side, and support elements deploying go through the full work-up training culminating with their passage through CMTC.

All Army officers now undergo the Common Army Phase course, much like the old Phase 2 infantry.  So rather than have widely varying standards applied at the Armd, Ary and Inf schools in Gagetown, the Engineer school in Chilliwack (dating myself here), and CSAFL in Borden, all Army officers now undergo an initial common course.

Convoys may be escorted by a variety of soldiers in a variety of vehicles, depending on the threat levels.  So the Cbt Arms do provide assistance as well on operations.