Living Quarters

[THEONE]

The Army does it again.  Accommodations need to change and fast.  This whole living 8 people per room just doesn't cut it.  Most units are pushing for the troops to get better accommodations(My thanks to them), but there just isn't enough room for everyone.  So they place all the stragglers 8 per room and forget about them.  they keep adding more units and bringing in more people but fail to build new buildings for these people to stay in.  So because of this the rest of us coming in have to stay in rooms filled with 8 people and only 4 lockers.  And when we are expected to have all our kit with us there is no longer room for proper living.  Don't get me wrong.  This kind of living is ok when staying for a short while.  But we are there for almost a year and its just too much.  And something needs to be done about it.

 

[navymich]

The Army does it again.  Accommodations need to change and fast.  This whole living 8 people per room just doesn't cut it.  Most units are pushing for the troops to get better accommodations(My thanks to them), but there just isn't enough room for everyone.  So they place all the stragglers 8 per room and forget about them.  they keep adding more units and bringing in more people but fail to build new buildings for these people to stay in.  So because of this the rest of us coming in have to stay in rooms filled with 8 people and only 4 lockers.  And when we are expected to have all our kit with us there is no longer room for proper living.  Don't get me wrong.  This kind of living is ok when staying for a short while.  But we are there for almost a year and its just too much.  And something needs to be done about it.

I guess that's one way to look at it.  Or you can look at the fact that at least you're not living in a tent in the field, or living 30-60 in a mess on a ship where the only place you have to store something is a small locker.  You have a roof over your head, clothes on your back and money put into your bank twice a month.  Even if they started building new accommodations tomorrow, the problem won't be solved right away.  I doubt it's gone unnoticed by the higher ups, but right now, at least you have accommodations.

 

[THEONE]

Yeah.  I understand that at least we don't live in a tent.  But when we are in a tent there is always room for all your things.  I also know that they can't just do something overnight and I acknowledge the fact that some units are doing there best to solve the problem.  I just think a better effort can be given by some people.  There are some groups there that have to be there for a year and a half and they are being moved into there 3rd location.  And considering most people that are on base live 1 to 2 people per room, there is no reason that we should be 8 per room.

 

[George Wallace]

You're on Course.........Right?

 

[brihard]

You're on Course.........Right?

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he's up in Pet living in L101. He mentioned in another post that's he's a reservist training for Afghanistan.
Right now we're at a minimum of 5 to a room, and that's increasing in the next few days to 6, 7, or even 8 as all the MCpls have been bumped out of their shacks and into ours. These are typical 4 man rooms with 4 lockers, but they've doubled up with bunk beds.

I know, I know, we have a roof over our heads and all that. It still sucks though. We haven't got much at all in the way of room for our kit as is, and with more people coming in now and then a few hundred more yet again in January AND more kit to be issued, it's just getting worse. We're living there until August, too.

Does anyone have an idea of the general accommodations situation in Petawawa? Are accommodations genuinely that short, or are we catching the short end of some stick on this? Our chain of command are working to see if anything can be done, but it's not looking good.

Again, not looking for pity here. I just want to know if living like this for a full year is normal enough to be dismissed with a simple 'suck it up', or if there's something else that ought to be happening with regards to the several hundred of us in this position?

 

[aesop081]

And what would be your solution ?

 

[Roy Harding]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say he's up in Pet living in L101. He mentioned in another post that's he's a reservist training for Afghanistan.
Right now we're at a minimum of 5 to a room, and that's increasing in the next few days to 6, 7, or even 8 as all the MCpls have been bumped out of their shacks and into ours. These are typical 4 man rooms with 4 lockers, but they've doubled up with bunk beds.

I know, I know, we have a roof over our heads and all that. It still sucks though. We haven't got much at all in the way of room for our kit as is, and with more people coming in now and then a few hundred more yet again in January AND more kit to be issued, it's just getting worse. We're living there until August, too.

Does anyone have an idea of the general accommodations situation in Petawawa? Are accommodations genuinely that short, or are we catching the short end of some stick on this? Our chain of command are working to see if anything can be done, but it's not looking good.

Again, not looking for pity here. I just want to know if living like this for a full year is normal enough to be dismissed with a simple 'suck it up', or if there's something else that ought to be happening with regards to the several hundred of us in this position?

I don't think you're looking for pity. 

Living like that is NOT normal in today's Army - but not so long ago it was the norm.  Although I don't want to be the one to say it, "Suck it up" may be the most appropriate response.

Look at it this way - 25 years from now (when you are me), it'll be the source of many lively stories, and perhaps (as in my case) the origin of a lifelong friendship or two - you never know.

 

[kratz]

This past summer, I had a course to instruct in Gageotwn. Things were approved so fast, I was paying for my accomodations out of pocket, until my claim caught things up. During this experience, I was paying less than $7 a day for a Cpl/MCpl, 4 person room with shared facilities. I was stunned that the week cost me so little. Go find a hotel room for five days and pay the same amount. Yes, there are some minor problems and valid complaints with the shacks, but on the whole I can not fault them for short term accomodations.

 

[brihard]

And what would be your solution ?

I don't know the system well enough to offer any that would be worth the time it would take you to read.

 

[George Wallace]

Well Brihard, just for your information; in 1998 they tore down 90 odd buildings at CFB Petawawa and were tearing down more the next year.  Some of those buildings were Qtrs.  Many will remember O-19 behind the Canex, which was one of them.  The Grenade Club, the Arty Shack and a Mess Hall were torn down around the Arty Pde Sq.  A Mess hall was torn down at Nicklin Pde Sq, and another Mess, F-15, was torn down at the Worthington Pde Sq.  Two Single Snr NCO Qtrs were torn down at the Airborne Snr NCO Mess.  All the facilities on the Mattawa Plain Cadet Camp were leveled.   The Airborne hangars in the Z Lines were torn down.

So, yes there is a shortage of facilities in Pet.

 

[geo]

I think that yuou will find that all our bases suffer from the same problem.
Old buildings were run into the ground - no money spent to maintain them... there wasn't any available - remember that when the CF shrank down in size, we didn't close down any bases... we just lived with facilities half full.  Now the CF is scrambling to rebuild it's strength at a time when the money is going into beans & bullets ... and we still don't have money going into facilities.
We have great plans for bases in the great white north while those that already exist, are showing their age....

Is there a solution?.... not on the short term... for the immediate moment, I'd say it's going to be... suck it up.

Then again, I remember using the old H huts in Aldershot, Valcartier, Farnham, ETC.... 1 room & 30 guys...

Good friends indeed!

 

[brihard]

OK, fair enough, thanks for the info. Guess it's just gonna suck for the foreseeable future.

 

[THEONE]

Alright, 2 years later but here it goes.

No.  I wasn't on course.  I was posted there for workup training.  And as much as people think that I should be happy with the fact that I have a roof over my head, I am not.  When I see 2 soldiers living in quarters the same size as I have 8 then I know something is wrong.  Two things can be done about it.

1.  Start using the empty rooms to place soldiers in them.
2.  Build a proper barracks for incoming pers that will be posted there.  Something like L101 but much bigger.

There is tons of room on base to build such a place and someone needs to get it done.

I know you can't get a hotel room for 7$ a night but hostels come pretty close and they are usually in better shape then this place.  Its one thing to kick us out of a building because they have officers coming.  But its a totaly different thing to stick 8 guys in a room and tell us that you will be taking out the appliances cause they are better off with officers then the troops.

Either way.  If you build a room for 4, keep it for 4.  If the whole base is being rebuilt for 2 per room, then someone should take a walk around and look how much space is being wasted.  Either way.  Someone could make some serious cash building a nice appartment complexe just off base.

PS.  My solution is simple.  Stop making people sleep more in a room then you need too.  If the base has empty shacks then use them.  Or build proper shacks.  With very little money you could build a new building and make your money's work in very little time for the number of troops on base.  If anyone has a better idea I am more then happy to hear it.

 

[chrisf]

After 5 months living in T-100 (The old elementary school in Shilo) anything is better....

[Edit: After thinking about it, T-100 was probably better than 8 in a room. Even with it's shower and laundry trailers out back, and porta-potties on the lawn to augment our lack of toilets]

 

[THEONE]

haha.  Good point.  I was actually thinking.  If I had to do it again, that I would bring a trailer and do the whole camping thing on base.  I know pet has a spot.  All bases should have that available.  You would have your own personal quarters with shower without worrying about inspections or any of the other bull that comes with shacks.

 

[armyvern]

Alright, 2 years later but here it goes.

No.  I wasn't on course.  I was posted there for workup training.  And as much as people think that I should be happy with the fact that I have a roof over my head, I am not.  When I see 2 soldiers living in quarters the same size as I have 8 then I know something is wrong.  Two things can be done about it.

1.  Start using the empty rooms to place soldiers in them.
2.  Build a proper barracks for incoming pers that will be posted there.  Something like L101 but much bigger.

There is tons of room on base to build such a place and someone needs to get it done.

I know you can't get a hotel room for 7$ a night but hostels come pretty close and they are usually in better shape then this place.  Its one thing to kick us out of a building because they have officers coming.  But its a totaly different thing to stick 8 guys in a room and tell us that you will be taking out the appliances cause they are better off with officers then the troops.

Either way.  If you build a room for 4, keep it for 4.  If the whole base is being rebuilt for 2 per room, then someone should take a walk around and look how much space is being wasted.  Either way.  Someone could make some serious cash building a nice appartment complexe just off base.

PS.  My solution is simple.  Stop making people sleep more in a room then you need too.  If the base has empty shacks then use them.  Or build proper shacks.  With very little money you could build a new building and make your money's work in very little time for the number of troops on base.  If anyone has a better idea I am more then happy to hear it.

Simple; yeah, ri-ight.  :

It's called capital expenditure projects. Money doesn't grow on trees. You want more shacks, then the government must give us new money. We do have a war to fight right now after all.

Be thankful you were in Pet for your work-up trg and not here in Gagetown for TF1-07. Go ahead - search the forum for the threads on that. While you're there, search the threads for "MND makes announcement in XXX" ...

Do you have any idea at all how long it takes to award contracts on major construction for federal departments (let alone the DND/CF)??

Apparently not. Don't like the lack of facilities and accomodations available on bases right now?? Then I suggest you remember exactly what Party's government of the day starved us to death in the late 80s/early 90s and put us into this predicament the next time an election comes around (that Party tends to mae a habit out of things like this when they are elected to form the government). It only takes the feds one budget to kill us in the CF - it takes the CF a generation (and a war!) to recover from it; YOU happen to be part of that generation.

 

[THEONE]

Well arent you a sac full of happiness.  Just so you know.  I did my research and I've seen what they do.  And there is nothing to be thankfull for.  I'm glad you agree that some people should be allowed to live 2 per 4 man room and it only comes at the cost of having 8 in 4 man rooms.  Its not a complicated thing that I was talking about.  There is tons of space and contracts are already going for reconstruction.  Unfortunately they have decided to make less space with the stuff they have.  I'm curently overseas at the moment and the accommodations here are ten times better then back home.  Hell.  My last tour I lived in a tent and it was better.  Its not complicated to do.  Just takes someone to take action.  And the people at the top in charge obviously have a different plan.  So next time you post a hate message, please make sure you are in the right spot.  I understand things are bad elsewhere, but the point was to fix one problem.  Please stick to that when posting here.

 

[armyvern]

Well arent you a sac full of happiness.  Just so you know.  I did my research and I've seen what they do.  And there is nothing to be thankfull for.  I'm glad you agree that some people should be allowed to live 2 per 4 man room and it only comes at the cost of having 8 in 4 man rooms.  Its not a complicated thing that I was talking about.  There is tons of space and contracts are already going for reconstruction.  Unfortunately they have decided to make less space with the stuff they have.  I'm curently overseas at the moment and the accommodations here are ten times better then back home.  Hell.  My last tour I lived in a tent and it was better.  Its not complicated to do.  Just takes someone to take action.  And the people at the top in charge obviously have a different plan.  So next time you post a hate message, please make sure you are in the right spot.  I understand things are bad elsewhere, but the point was to fix one problem.  Please stick to that when posting here.

Next time I post a hate message? That's the stupidest thing I've heard today. Apparently you don't like it if someone disagrees with you.

I did keep on topic and that is money. Or is that something you just can't accept and would typically like to blame it on the CoC and 'those at the top' when they have absolutely SFA to do with the situation that got the CF into this predicament in the first place? That'd be budget cuts by a Big L government. Don't let the facts stand in your way though.

Funny too, I know guys in the shacks in Pet (and everywhere else too) and they don't seem to see all these empty rooms that you do.

 

[George Wallace]

Actually Vern, I think he is on meds and figures that somewhere in the system there is a Gandalf who with a quick flick of his wrist and majic wand, and poof! ..... there is a new Shack with private rooms for thousands. 

 

[fbr2o75]

Next time I post a hate message? That's the stupidest thing I've heard today



Hmmmmmm, I think there is a thread going that you could have put his response in  ;D