Let "The Journey" Begin

[Jay4th]

As a 25 year Reg Force Infantry MWO, who has not spent more than 2 years in the same geographical area in the last 10 years, this makes releasing into a class B job for some stability look very attractive.  Perhaps I will call it "the journey" .

 

[Remius]

As a 25 year Reg Force Infantry MWO, who has not spent more than 2 years in the same geographical area in the last 10 years, this makes releasing into a class B job for some stability look very attractive.  Perhaps I will call it "the journey" .

The instability of being on Class B is what made me jump ship to the PS. 

 

[Rifleman62]

Unless things have changed you are on a one or two year contract and must apply for your posn as the requirement is that the posn must be a advertised extensively not just local area.

 

[Monsoon]

The instability of being on Class B is what made me jump ship to the PS.

Which is why every other organization in the world pays a premium to its contract employees... 

 

[MJP]

Which is why every other organization in the world pays a premium to its contract employees... 

They also rarely ever get benefits associated with regular employment in the organization that contracted them. 

 

[Haggis]

The instability of being on Class B is what made me jump ship to the PS.

About 14 years ago I was working in the IM Gp. A civilian project manager there had about two dozen Class B's working for him.  All were in 3 year positions but were only offered one year contracts which he re-competed every year. When I asked him why he said that "if they are offered the security of a three year contract, they won't work as hard to keep their jobs".

 

[Remius]

About 14 years ago I was working in the IM Gp. A civilian project manager there had about two dozen Class B's working for him.  All were in 3 year positions but were only offered one year contracts which he re-competed every year. When I asked him why he said that "if they are offered the security of a three year contract, they won't work as hard to keep their jobs".

Running 24 hiring processes a year seems like a lot of work for a PM who I assume had an actual project to run. 

 

[Haggis]

Running 24 hiring processes a year seems like a lot of work for a PM who I assume had an actual project to run.

He had a PO2 Clerk who was solely responsible for "managing" his Class B staff as the sailor was, otherwise, unemployable.

 

[Monsoon]

He had a PO2 Clerk who was solely responsible for "managing" his Class B staff as the sailor was, otherwise, unemployable.

Well, y'see he didn't have to compete for his job every 12 months, so...

 

[daftandbarmy]

Well, y'see he didn't have to compete for his job every 12 months, so...

<slight scraping noises as soap box is dragged up>

The whole 'Class B trap' is an insult to the dignity, self-respect and standards of care and efficiency that we should otherwise expect to be a salient feature of military service.

This temp worker type shell game is likely responsible for causing more dysfunction (operational and personnel wise) than it is solving. Either increase the size of our Regular Force to accurately reflect the work that must be done to maintain a viable national defence capacity, or downsize and manage expectations accordingly.

Extended, system wide, deep tissue levels dependence on a contracted service meant for closing specific gaps for short periods of time, with small numbers of people, is probably equivalent to trying to brace the broken main mast on a China Clipper with a hockey stick and gun tape just before rounding the Horn.

<gradually diminishing scuttling away sounds>

 

[mariomike]

The instability of being on Class B is what made me jump ship to the PS.

The whole 'Class B trap' is an insult to the dignity, self-respect and standards of care and efficiency that we should otherwise expect to be a salient feature of military service.

This temp worker type shell game is likely responsible for causing more dysfunction (operational and personnel wise) than it is solving.

At least temporary workers in civil service union jobs have layoff and recall rights.

 

[Remius]

<slight scraping noises as soap box is dragged up>

The whole 'Class B trap' is an insult to the dignity, self-respect and standards of care and efficiency that we should otherwise expect to be a salient feature of military service.

This temp worker type shell game is likely responsible for causing more dysfunction (operational and personnel wise) than it is solving. Either increase the size of our Regular Force to accurately reflect the work that must be done to maintain a viable national defence capacity, or downsize and manage expectations accordingly.

Extended, system wide, deep tissue levels dependence on a contracted service meant for closing specific gaps for short periods of time, with small numbers of people, is probably equivalent to trying to brace the broken main mast on a China Clipper with a hockey stick and gun tape just before rounding the Horn.

<gradually diminishing scuttling away sounds>

Totally agree with this.  The Pres should have dedicated long term class B positions that directly support the Pres.  Like RQ staff, OPs and some HRA/FSA types.

They should also career manage those positions to avoid stagnation.  6 years plus in the same job isn't good for them or the institution.

You hit the nail on the head with the class b problem.  It should never be a long term solution.  MATA/PATA, short term fills etc is what it should be. 

 

[Haggis]

You hit the nail on the head with the class b problem.

And so did you.

The CAF is addicted to class B.  class B contracts and such need a complete overhaul.

The PRECS program about seven or eight years ago was supposed to be an institutional "intervention" to deal with the CAF's (particularly NDHQ's) addiction to Class B.  It wasn't and resulted in Class B reductions at the Armoury floor level where they were needed the most.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Good point. In practice the different theoretical time-in-rank requirements are patched over by the very common use of accelerated promotion to Cpl in the RegF, which is not available to reservists. But there’s no obvious reason to have differing policies on either point.

There's a pretty big difference in the abilities of a Res Cpl IPC 0, and a Reg Cpl IPC 0.  I don't see a need to water down the Reg Force Cpl anymore than it has been.  By the time they get thru basic, Initial Occupation trg and get a little experience downrange...they're looking at their 2nd hook.

4 years isn't that much experience when you take that into consideration (experience once at OFP);  if a PRes type is a Cl A type...at 2 years, they don't likely have any real/useful experience.  If anything, move them to the 4 year for promotion, not the opposite.

 

[Monsoon]

4 years isn't that much experience when you take that into consideration (experience once at OFP);  if a PRes type is a Cl A type...at 2 years, they don't likely have any real/useful experience.  If anything, move them to the 4 year for promotion, not the opposite.

I guess you won't get any argument here - except perhaps to note that in general "time in rank" is a piss-poor way to evaluate performance and skill, and perhaps a less 1950s personnel management system would improve outcomes.

 

[Monsoon]

They also rarely ever get benefits associated with regular employment in the organization that contracted them.

I wouldn't say that's the case with organizations that operate at a comparable scale to the CAF (oil & gas supermajors, as an example, or UN agencies). There, the benefits packages for contractors tends to be more or less the same as whatever is currently offered for new permanent staff; the contractor premium is paid because of the value of being able to scale up and down the workforce with minimal friction. The number of permanent employees at a company like Shell - even among executives - is a small fraction of its workforce.

 

[tomahawk6]

4 years of being part time isn't much experience unless that soldier has deployed.I know in the US a guard or reserve E8 doesn't have much experience as an active duty E8. If that reservist or National Guardsman were to join the active Army it wouldn't be as an E8, perhaps as an E6 maybe as an E7. Regular Army personnel going into the Reserves or National Guard might keep their old rank or be promoted into the Reserves depending on local rules.

The main recruiting selling point is retirement.

https://www.nationalguard.com/pay/calculator?utm_campaign=amrgfloodlighttagsanddisplayads&utm_campaign=Brand%20%7C%20Benefits%20%7C%20Exact&utm_source=66&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=amrgpaidsearch&utm_medium=cpc&utm_content=web&utm_content=Benefits%20%7C%20Retirement&c3apidt=p32329840392&msclkid=0981c5015d5e1c3aadb9980c0ecb72c7&utm_term=national%20guard%20to%20retire&gclid=CPfzv8vJ--ICFaWKxQIdmtUEUA&gclsrc=ds

Results

Results for E-5: 30 Years.
Weekend Drill Pay:
$441.40
Annual Training Pay:
$1,544.90
Active Duty Monthly:
During extended training, such as Basic Combat Training and Advanced Individual Traning, or when you are deployed for any reason.
$3,310.50
Annual Total:
$6,841.70

I calculated what a Guard E5 might get paid after 30 years of service.

 

[mariomike]

The main recruiting selling point is retirement.

If you complete a standard part-time term in the Guard by age 60, you could be eligible to receive monthly payments* based on serving one weekend per month plus an additional 15 days per year, for 20 years.

That's a good deal.

Being in a service battalion, I could, and did, work lots of weekends.

And summers while I was still in high school.

I also did the two-week summer concentration every year. My full time employer paid my wages. I submitted compensation received from the military to the city treasurer.

But, for the weekends, I was turning down overtime from my full-time job to work my part-time job.

Plus, back then I was still on shift work which complicated matters.

 

[PPCLI Guy]

Totally agree with this.  The Pres should have dedicated long term class B positions that directly support the Pres.  Like RQ staff, OPs and some HRA/FSA types.

They should also career manage those positions to avoid stagnation.  6 years plus in the same job isn't good for them or the institution.

You hit the nail on the head with the class b problem.  It should never be a long term solution.  MATA/PATA, short term fills etc is what it should be.

That sounds like Reg F service to ne

 

[Remius]

That sounds like Reg F service to ne

NAVres was doing this.  Not sure if they still are.  They would force people to find another class B after they did a three year contract.