Leave - Recall and Other Issues [MERGED]

[NEM3sis]

Purple trade, Corporal now - didn't update my profile sorry

a lot of does not equal all so don't twist the dictionnary to your own end.

I don't determine my own work schedule, I am stating my situation with as much detail as possible, if I was determining my own work schedule as you imply, each and every phone call they did to me while I was in Toronto, I would have ignored with a call back later saying: Hey I was in theater and left my phone at the hotel, bunch of missed phone calls, What's up?" but I am of good faith and answered all phone calls and missed half the show anyway cuz I was busy texting back and forth with my SSM.

Don't worry, I've been looking at all the regs all week, only came in here yesterday for some further guidance.
you haven't done much other than try to discredit me, other people at least put some valuable input.






 

 

[Shamrock]

...But your posts in this thread give an impression of someone who thinks that they determine their own work schedule...

Good point.  Work hours are published in orders.  What is the duty status of a member during the off-duty hours?  On leave subject to recall or on duty outside a duty area?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

you haven't done much other than try to discredit me, other people at least put some valuable input.

I've given you some perspective, that you don't like as it doesn't support you 100%.  That's not discrediting you (IMO).

I pointed out in my first post that your Dec leave has neither been approved or denied.  And later suggested you request an update thru your immediate superiors.

But, as you seem to need a HFR now, I'll go on RLS.  Cheers.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I am probably going to make enemies here, but here in a nutshell is the concept of leave/duty: In the CF, if you are not "on leave", that is do not have an approved leave chit, then you are on duty, even though outside working hours and not otherwise required for duty. The crown is happy to let you go about your affairs as you see fit - subject to recall at any time required, however.

Thus, if you have special plans (I underline special) for a given week-end, or wish to go out of area such as to make your recall difficult or costly, it is up to you to request week-end leave in writing to avoid the unpleasantness of recall. Should your CoC refuse you such week-end pass, heed the warning sign. It is probably because your CoC is aware of circumstances that may lead to recall on that particular week-end.

Those week end pass can also be your butt saver. I always used to put one in when I planned to go to Vancouver for the week-end. Once, BC Ferries decided to can the Sunday night sailings due to a severe storm in Georgia Strait and I had to come back to the ship, late, on the Monday morning. I did not get into trouble, however because Command was aware that I was in Vancouver and therefore wasn't making this up to cover for another reason to be late.

 

[George Wallace]

True, but this approach only leads to people not being able to plan for anything for fear of being recalled. As much as he was on normal time off vs leave, the fact that he was recalled and incurred a cost associated with that recall should entitle him to some form of compensation.

NO.  This does not lead to people not being able to plan for anything for fear of being recalled.  It encourages the practice to submit a Leave Pass for such cases where you have something planned, even if it is within the 'Geographic Area'.  The fact that he did not follow this precaution to let his CoC know that he had plans, is not the fault of his CoC.  What is that saying: "Lack of planning on your part does not constitute and emergency on my part."  If anyone has any plans such as those in this example, "Cover Your Ass" and submit a Leave Pass.  In this case, it would appear that the member's CoC had no knowledge of their plans to go to Toronto and stay overnight.

 

[NEM3sis]

actually George, in this case the CoC was aware I would be in Toronto.

My point highlighting the course being shorten by one week is only to show the fact that 4 month ago, when we bought the tickets and booked the hotel and I was course-loaded, to whom should I have done the leave pass? to my CoC at my unit or to the school since I belonged to the school, not my unit until the end of course.

I think I may be good for the hotel cost this time thanks to Ostrozac input and also because I got the support of some higher up within the Unit, but this will go in the Lesson Learned book for next time.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

My point highlighting the course being shorten by one week is only to show the fact that 4 month ago, when we bought the tickets and booked the hotel and I was course-loaded, to whom should I have done the leave pass? to my CoC at my unit or to the school since I belonged to the school, not my unit until the end of course.

Sounds like an easy question to ask your CofC.    Were you going to be on TD or an AP? 

If they didn't know, they'd put the question up the chain, and over to the TE if required.

I've been "on course" before (same geo location as my unit), but not officially on TD or an AP.  Same question was asked by my unit to the TE; they came to an agreement that the TE CofC would approve the leave.  Voila, submitted my leave pass and had it back signed from the TE CofC that day.

In your case then, when your course ended early (assuming you were on TD or AP for the course and the TE CofC approved leave previously), you would officially be released back to your unit, where you would say "okay, I'm back now...I have this leave pass signed for weekend X.  Do I need to submit a new one?".

If your *new* request for leave was denied, because of circumstances outside your control I would then think that you would be reimbursed for any cancellation fees that might arise from your previously-approved-now-denied leave pass.

 

[NEM3sis]

this is informative and will go in the lesson learned for the future, Thanks Eye in the Sky.
I was not on TD, the only thing separating the school from my Unit is a driving range.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Cheers.  Hope you get your leave approved for your wedding.  If there is someone trying to side-rail it, being that it is your wedding you are requesting leave for, I'm hopeful your CO signs off.

 

[COOK9856]

It is 2 weeks before i drive down to Disney World with my family. CoC is trying to recall an approved leave pass. My parents are scheduled to met me and my family down there and they have already purchased tickets. I'm trying to find anything that states that they are entitled to a reimbursement also. all i have right now is  CBI 209.54, QRO 16.01. can't find anything about extended family having to cancel vacation due to my leave being recalled. any suggestions?

 

[George Wallace]

This has been discussed before.  WAIT OUT and I will merge the topics.


Merged

Hope this helps.

 

[COOK9856]

I don't see how this thread helps me. I'm looking for reimbursement for extended family members who have booked vacation for the purposes of seeing me and my family.

for example.....if I were getting married. i had a leave pass for the ceremony. several family member are flying in to whiteness the ceremony. leave gets recalled. can i get their plane tickets reimbursed?

 

[dapaterson]

The Leave Manual (http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/caf-community-benefits/leave-policy.page) doesn't provide much more, but does provide definitions of what constitute "imperative military requirements".

 

[Strike]

Looking at this: http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/about-policies-standards-benefits/ch-209-transportation-expenses.page#sec-209-54  I notice this statement:

209.54 - Reimbursement of Expenses when Recalled from or on Cancellation of Leave

209.54(1) (Application) SSubject to paragraph (2), an officer or non-commissioned member who is recalled to duty from leave in accordance with QR&O 16.01 (Withholding of and Recall From Leave) or whose approved leave has been cancelled for service reasons may be reimbursed for:
a.transportation and travelling expenses in accordance with CBI 209.83 - Transportation and Travelling Expenses – Move of Officers and Non-commissioned Members on Posting or of Dependants for the member and, where applicable, their dependants to the place of duty from the place from which the member was recalled and for the return journey if the member resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which the member was recalled; and
b.additional expenses resulting either from the cost of breaking contractual arrangements or cancellation fees that were made specifically for the purpose of an approved leave period.
209.54(2) (Submission of claims for reimbursement) Claims for reimbursement under paragraph (1) shall be submitted in accordance with orders and instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff.

That MAY be something you could look at if you made the booking for hotels, park tickets, whatever and they had to be cancelled as a whole group.  But I don't think extended family flight costs would be covered.

 

[George Wallace]

Leave Policies will apply to you and your immediate family (ie. spouse and dependents) in the majority of cases.  Your "extended" family will have to deal with any changes to their plans on their own.  The government has no responsibility for them in the cases you have put forward.

If you check the links on the previous post, you will find:

209.54 - Reimbursement of Expenses when Recalled from or on Cancellation of Leave

209.54(1) (Application) SSubject to paragraph (2), an officer or non-commissioned member who is recalled to duty from leave in accordance with QR&O 16.01 (Withholding of and Recall From Leave) or whose approved leave has been cancelled for service reasons may be reimbursed for:

a.  transportation and travelling expenses in accordance with CBI 209.83 - Transportation and Travelling Expenses    – Move of Officers and Non-commissioned Members on Posting or of Dependants for the member and, where applicable, their dependants to the place of duty from the place from which the member was recalled and for the return journey if the member resumes leave immediately after completion of the duty for which the member was recalled; and
b. additional expenses resulting either from the cost of breaking contractual arrangements or cancellation fees that were made specifically for the purpose of an approved leave period.

209.54(2) (Submission of claims for reimbursement) Claims for reimbursement under paragraph (1) shall be submitted in accordance with orders and instructions issued by the Chief of the Defence Staff.

 

[McG]

The extended family could always bring thier concerns to Director Claims and Civil Litigation.

 

[exgunnertdo]

I'll put this in this thread, for general purposes - TRIP CANCELLATION INSURANCE!!!!

I am bit of a cruise addict, and spend a bit of time on a message board dedicated to cruising. Almost daily, there are threads about "I have to cancel my cruise for xyz reason. Will Royal Caribbean/Carnival/Disney give me my money back?"

For us military folks, if we have a signed leave pass, signed and stamped before the travel was booked, you can get your money back from the government (as mentioned, for military member and immediate family). We've done it, when my husband was recalled from leave (only had to cover a hotel in that case). Another time, we almost had to get the military to reimburse us for a cruise when my husband was deployed on very short notice, but Royal Caribbean was very generous and allowed us to cancel for a full refund.

Most Trip Cancellation Insurance policies will cover if a member of your party has to cancel for a valid reason (work is usually a valid reason). So while the military will reimburse if the recall you/cancel your leave, if your extended family has trip cancellation insurance, that could apply.

Also, a good idea for the military member and family. If someone gets too sick to travel, you'll all be out the money. If a storm means cancelled flights (it is still hurricane season) and they miss 2 days of your prepaid hotel/park passes, etc. The military will not help with those scenarios. Cancelled leave is not the only reason to need to get your money back.

Just warning for people reading the thread. I recognize the poster with the question may be out of luck on this one. If the extended family doesn't already have insurance, it's too late. The military is not responsible for everyone's travel plans. They have to take their own precautions.

But nevertheless - have the extended family members check their credit card policy. Some credit cards have cancellation insurance built in as a benefit. Also, if they booked through a travel agent, some travel agents slip it in without you realizing it. They get a commission on insurance so it's to their benefit to sell it to you.

 

[ratatomik]

Hi,
  i've been looking around the DAOD and QR&O but couldnt find anything on that.
  Is there a maximum time you have to report in when let's say you r on days off and you get a phone call but arent there to pick up? Im looking for a reference of something.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Unit Orders?  And, by 'days off' do you mean shiftwork, normal weekends, NWDs?  On leave?

 

[ratatomik]

Shiftwork, weekends and leave.