Kingston Class 40MM replacement?

[cupper]

The confusion seems to be coming from various sources as to what was installed originally when construction was completed. Some sources claim that the twin 40's were never installed. Others say that they were installed during construction, and removed shortly after delivery.

Originally part of the Majestic Class of light carriers, Bonnie would have had the same armaments as Magnificent. However her construction was put on hold (She was originally was (or to be) named HMS Powerful. When it was decided that Magnificent would be retired and replaced by the Bonnie, construction resumed with a modernized design put in place.

As an additional side note, I remember being on the Bonnie when I was a wee lad just before her retirement. If memory serves correct, my father was briefly posted to her after the Kootenay explosion.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Actually, It appears that sledge is right.

It was Magnificent that carried 17 single boors and four double boors 40mm guns for AA protection.

Bonnie apparently only had the four twin 3"50 that were radar directed for its AA.

Got that from the Bonaventure's book of pictures on Flikr at the following ref. Look mid way down pathe page at the deck comparison between the two ladies.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dodgedeora/sets/72157624028100452/page2/

Looking at your flickr above, are these not Bofors?  https://www.flickr.com/photos/dodgedeora/4593744582/in/set-72157624028100452

 

[hugh19]

No those are 3" 50's.

 

[jollyjacktar]

Then, I will apologise.  Eat three helpings of crow and STFU. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Don't be too hard on yourself JJ. You may note from my first post on the subject that I too mentioned Bonnie as a source of bofors 40 mm. I can tell you that the lore around the Navy has always been that we were fighting with Bonnie's old guns, not maggies'. So there is a definite long standing urban legend around those guns in any event.

 

[hugh19]

I really don't believe they are from Maggie either. As she was a rental. I am guessing she had to be returned as is.

 

[cupper]

Seems that the Canadian War Museum has heard the story as well.

http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/navy/objects_photos_search-e.aspx?section=4-A&id=365&page=15

The Twin 40 was used in quite a few ships post war as well, so they could be the original source.

http://www.warmuseum.ca/cwm/exhibitions/navy/objects_photos_search-e.aspx?section=4-D&id=41&page=1

 

[Old Sweat]

To downshift into UFI mode, it seems to me that the Boffin mounts that I saw, mostly in AD Wing at the  Artillery School in Gagetown, were manufactured circa 1943 somewhere in Saskatchewan. Can anybody confirm or deny?

Jollyjacktar, don't eat all the crow just yet. I may need a couple of plates.

 

[Blackadder1916]

To downshift into UFI mode, it seems to me that the Boffin mounts that I saw, mostly in AD Wing at the  Artillery School in Gagetown, were manufactured circa 1943 somewhere in Saskatchewan. Can anybody confirm or deny?

Difficult to read if Saskatchewan but likely Canada, however the plate is for the mount (not gun) which were originally made for twin 20mm.

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/systems/guns/ (not quite midway down the page)

40mm/56.25 "Boffin" or "Bofin" 

Fitted to
UGANDA / QUEBEC, ONTARIO;  MAGNIFICENT, Tribal (Batch 1 and Batch 2), V, C, some ST. LAURENT class destroyers (ST. LAURENT, SAGUENAY, SKEENA, ASSINIBOINE, and OTTAWA only), PRESTONIAN class frigates, Bay class minesweepers, Porte class gate vessels, KINGSTON class MCDVs, airbases in Europe.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I have mentioned elsewhere that my dad related to me their Bofors were taken away in 44 as they were considered obsolete and were replaced with 20mm Orlekions which they used for the remainder of the war.  He did say, however, that if you turn the Bofors against ground troops you have the biggest machine gun around.  Very effective.  They also used them for demolishing houses too. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Hazegray is pretty authoritative. They check their facts properly and give their sources.

In any event, I am sure we can all agree that the 40 mm Bofors are the guns the RCN just won't give up. They will be recycled and recycled and recycled because they seem to be the gun that takes a licking and keep on going.

I think they are the Naval equivalent of the famed 2,500 fruit cakes that were ever cooked, that keep being recirculated as gifts in a never ending chain.

 

[jollyjacktar]

For what we use them for, I think they're a damn fine solution.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I have no doubt Somali pirates would agree with you.

(See how I artfully closed the loop with a reference to pirates here )

 

[Colin Parkinson]

My regiment found a new in the box single Bofors without lower mount at Pat bay now at the museum, will have to look at the data plate one of these days. I certainly learned something new so being proven wrong in a informative way is always interesting.

 

[Cloud Cover]

When designed as HMS Powerful, the carrier had 40mm gun mounts in the design. When the hull was purchased by the RCN, the 40mm was deleted and twin open turret 3"50 cal was added to standardize ammunition to that of the St Laurent class of ships. When the enclosed turret was adopted for the DDE's, the turret would have obstructed flight deck views for aircraft and the mounts were not changed on the carrier. I believe  they were eventually removed at last refit before decommissioning. I know there were still NSN parts for those mounts in Kalamazoo in the late 80's, even though the twin 3 inch50 had been modified on the DDE/IRE during the 1970's refits.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Not quite. The 3"50 were not modified on the DDE/IRE's.

The DDE's (Mackenzie class) were the first built directly with the twin American 3"70 forward and the British twin 3"50  aft. All of them in turrets. Though for reasons unknown, Qu'appelle had twin 3"50 in turrets both forward and aft. Go figure?

The IRE's were originally built as DDE's with twin 3"50's in turrets forward and aft, but in the refits to turn them into IRE's (1968 to 1972), the after twin 3"50 turrets were removed and the forward ones were replaced by the twin 3"70 guns.

Some of those 3"50 that were removed ended up as "bow chasers" on the Protecteur class vessels.

 

[hugh19]

The 3"70 is British and teh 3"50 is American. ;D

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Your right. My bad - Had brain cramp.

That's why the 70's were more complex, but shot better .

 

[drunknsubmrnr]

Qu'appelle had a 3"/50 forward because there weren't enough 3"/70's after the school got their mount.

From what I saw on Awesome Warship Saskatchewan the 3"/70 shot great for about 3 rounds and then a shear pin was.....sheared. Then there was an hours stoppage while the NWTs hunted down and replaced the pin and got off another few rounds. Yukon seemed to do very well with steel "war-issue" shear pins though....I think she was able to shoot her mags empty on her decommissioning cruise.

 

[misratah500]

I have some good info on the 40mm with regards to life left on them, but I think it's OPSEC. Not sure, with these old dinosaurs.