Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[PuckChaser]

As you get closer to the common sense blackhole of the NCR, I think things get worse

 

[Halifax Tar]

We can yell and scream at the TBS and PSPC all we want but the first step to fixing this is showing we are good fiscal managers with what we have now.

I don't blame TBS and PSPC when I see the shit we pull all the time. The problem is us.

 

[MilEME09]

We can yell and scream at the TBS and PSPC all we want but the first step to fixing this is showing we are good fiscal managers with what we have now.

I don't blame TBS and PSPC when I see the shit we pull all the time. The problem is us.

You'd think with all these finance officer's, we would be good at it

 

[dapaterson]

CAF finance officers are trained as budget managers, not accountants. Most would be hard pressed to discuss why there is a chart of accounts and what it represents; are poor at differentiating between the four votes used by DND/CAF; and receive little to no formal training on the mechanics of government which is a sine qua non at the more senior levels (LCol+). A finance officer who can't discuss Main Estimates, Supplementary Estimates, and the Annual Reference Level Update isn't a finance officer.

 

[kev994]

CAF finance officers are trained as budget managers, not accountants. Most would be hard pressed to discuss why there is a chart of accounts and what it represents; are poor at differentiating between the four votes used by DND/CAF; and receive little to no formal training on the mechanics of government which is a sine qua non at the more senior levels (LCol+). A finance officer who can't discuss Main Estimates, Supplementary Estimates, and the Annual Reference Level Update isn't a finance officer.

I was recently shocked to find out they do zero training in procurement. Explains why they keep talking about multiple quotes for Standing Offers.

 

[dapaterson]

There is sometimes confusion between Standing Offers and Supply Arrangements.

More fun is when a unit is geographically dispersed, and supported by multiple RDAOs, each of which has a different interpretation of the rules that they inflict. Requiring a LCol CO to report back on why that terrible, terrible Sgt Mat Mgt Tech doesn't have three quotes on hand after spending $9 on batteries is clearly an optimal use of everyone's time, right?

 

[Halifax Tar]

You'd think with all these finance officer's, we would be good at it

You have no idea how many times I have had or have witnessed LogOs get completely disregarded because the NWO or Inf O just didn't think they needed to follow that monetary or procurement policy.

And again, it gets picked up on the compliance inspection and it's all giggles and back slaps and don't do it again Billy tehehehe.

 

[Halifax Tar]

There is sometimes confusion between Standing Offers and Supply Arrangements.

More fun is when a unit is geographically dispersed, and supported by multiple RDAOs, each of which has a different interpretation of the rules that they inflict. Requiring a LCol CO to report back on why that terrible, terrible Sgt Mat Mgt Tech doesn't have three quotes on hand after spending $9 on batteries is clearly an optimal use of everyone's time, right?

I understand you're point but generally you don't need three quotes for a 9$ PReq.

 

[Halifax Tar]

I was recently shocked to find out they do zero training in procurement. Explains why they keep talking about multiple quotes for Standing Offers.

There is serious debate around this. Before I went on this French course I conducted Supply compliance inspections on ships and we had two civilian auditors who looked after procurement. Magnificently detailed people.

I will tell you they read the FAM/PAM to state that SOA or not the quotes matrix must be followed.

It's the first Sunday of my March break so I don't have their references. But I too questioned it.

 

[MilEME09]

You have no idea how many times I have had or have witnessed LogOs get completely disregarded because the NWO or Inf O just didn't think they needed to follow that monetary or procurement policy.

And again, it gets picked up on the compliance inspection and it's all giggles and back slaps and don't do it again Billy tehehehe.

Sounds like a FinO needs a bit more power to prevent stuff from going ahead if policy isn't followed.

 

[dapaterson]

I understand you're point but generally you don't need three quotes for a 9$ PReq.

Oh, believe me, I know. The RDAO, on the other hand, had a different opinion.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Sounds like a FinO needs a bit more power to prevent stuff from going ahead if policy isn't followed.

No, people need to be held accountable for misuse of public funds.

Can't manage your units budge and procurement, doesn't sound to me like your ready for that next step. Back in the pool you go Billy.

The truth is we don't take Logistics/Procurement seriously. And we refuse to let operators and operations fail because of their disregard of Logistics. It's a vicious cycle.

 

[MilEME09]

No, people need to be held accountable for misuse of public funds.

Can't manage your units budge and procurement, doesn't sound to me like your ready for that next step. Back in the pool you go Billy.

The truth is we don't take Logistics/Procurement seriously. And we refuse to let operators and operations fail because of their disregard of Logistics. It's a vicious cycle.

I would argue we do not let anyone fail, but I agree there is a culture of lacking accountability for anything that doesn't cause injury or death in the majority of situations. If you can't handle tax payer money properly, you shouldn't have access to it.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

A lot of it has to do with the general ignorance of fiscal policy and the "how to acquire" for specific items. This is across the CAF and is both a NCO/Officer problem.

I have had to walk Project Management officers through sub unit ITI processes.

How are they supposed to advise higher level commanders on acquiring capabilities, when they don't know how to get a monitor life cycled?

You can talk about the product delivery and outcomes til you're blue in the face, but if you don't have an understanding of what's already on standing offer or is a LCMM item...you look foolish.

 

[Remius]

ADM Mat runs basic procurement, complex procurement and bid evaluation courses etc etc. The issue is that those courses were so poorly maintained because the technical authority for those courses didn’t commit the time or energy to keep them up to date and was a secondary task. So when basic procurement could no longer be taught due to outdated course material it had a trickle on effect. Basically leaving this stuff to OJT. And that can lead to skill gaps depending on who is providing the OJT.

Not sure if they’ve managed to fix those courses or what not but it was a problem a few years ago.

 

[kev994]

There is serious debate around this. Before I went on this French course I conducted Supply compliance inspections on ships and we had two civilian auditors who looked after procurement. Magnificently detailed people.

I will tell you they read the FAM/PAM to state that SOA or not the quotes matrix must be followed.

It's the first Sunday of my March break so I don't have their references. But I too questioned it.

I thought the whole point is that the negotiations/price comparisons had already been done. Just when I thought I knew what I was doing….

 

[Halifax Tar]

I thought the whole point is that the negotiations/price comparisons had already been done. Just when I thought I knew what I was doing….

I mean clear, no interpretation needed instructions would be nice too.

I get it. I was shocked too.

 

[daftandbarmy]

BOOTFORGEN... entirely because it is the least bureaucratic thing we do WRT kitting out our people.

And probably also Logistik Unicorp.

If there was only a way to provide the same type of service for field kit as well...

 

[MilEME09]

And probably also Logistik Unicorp.

If there was only a way to provide the same type of service for field kit as well...

Hopefully the Russo-Ukrainian War is a wake up call that we can't take our sweet a** time any more, time to kick things into high gear. Select a fighter jet, if possible cut steel on the CSC, more LAVs, etc....

 

[dangerboy]

And probably also Logistik Unicorp.

If there was only a way to provide the same type of service for field kit as well...

They are working on it: Operational Clothing & Footwear (OCFC2) (W8486-206245/A) - Buyandsell.gc.ca

1.2.1 Summary Background
The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) is responsible for protecting Canada and defending its sovereignty, defending North America and contributing to international peace and security. To carry out their responsibilities, CAF members must be equipped with operational clothing and footwear (OCF) that provides the necessary protection and operational mobility to conduct daily operations anywhere in the world.

OCFC2 builds on the existing Consolidated Clothing Contract (C3) model operating in DND today for dress and occupational / environment uniform commodities, offering assurance of a tried and proven business model which has evolved through the last 20 years.

For all items stipulated under contract, a prime vendor would be responsible for their acquisition, as well as inventory and distribution management and other services. This managed clothing solution (MCS) provides for the opportunity to develop a direct delivery system between the contractor and the individual military member. In addition, OCFC2 will allow for lower contract management and administrative overhead, lower inventory, improved acquisition cycles, improved response times for corrective actions and product improvement while allowing the apparel, textile and footwear industries to remain competitive, innovative and responsive.

1.2.2 Brief Description

The MCS will provide end-to-end management of the DND supply chain for Operational Clothing and Footwear (OCF), from acquisition and/or manufacturing to inventory management to distribution. It will include professional and design services as well as configuration management.

The successful bidder will supply DND with a complete supply chain management approach that encompasses program management services, professional services, manufacturing, warehousing and inventory management, order processing and management, and distribution and delivery.

The MCS will also provide an online Order Management System (OMS) for use by Authorized Users who will order items for Direct Delivery to the address of their choice.

National and international deliveries may be required by the successful Bidder; destinations will only be specified at time of order.