It's so Cold in Manitoba.....

[Globesmasher]

- if we can train up a pipe to be a SAR/TAL/AAR/STRAT pilot - he can surely handle pushing buttons at FL350. 

That would be an over-simplification.

 

[C1Dirty]

However, with the upgrade in technology and the new "paradigm" we shall wait and see how the first batch of guys do on the various airframes.

Check, thanks for the response.  My guess would be that 36 months is pretty reasonable if they're flying lots.

 

[Zoomie]

That would be an over-simplification.

I'll concede that pushing buttons is not all that the boys do - but coming from the most seat-of-the-pants aircraft in the AMAG community - this is how we view anything with more than 6000 SHP.

  I would think that being a TAL AC dropping CDS and troops in Afghanistan and only being 3 years out of Portage is a pretty steep curve - this is being achieved as I type by fellow brethren at 436 Sqn.

How does flying the big iron in and out of CAT II airports across the world (CC-150 and Challenger) stand on the difficulty scale?

I imagine that we are going to have to see pipes upgrading on the J-models, FWSAR, CH-148, Chinook, etc - all of which are just as technologically advanced as the former sacred cows.

 

[Globesmasher]

I'll concede that pushing buttons is not all that the boys do - but coming from the most seat-of-the-pants aircraft in the AMAG community - this is how we view anything with more than 6000 SHP.

  I would think that being a TAL AC dropping CDS and troops in Afghanistan and only being 3 years out of Portage is a pretty steep curve - this is being achieved as I type by fellow brethren at 436 Sqn.

How does flying the big iron in and out of CAT II airports across the world (CC-150 and Challenger) stand on the difficulty scale?

I imagine that we are going to have to see pipes upgrading on the J-models, FWSAR, CH-148, Chinook, etc - all of which are just as technologically advanced as the former sacred cows.

The Airbus and Challenger are out of my swim lane.
I don't plan or write the QS for those aircraft.
I have no idea how long their upgrade plans are going to be.

As for the CC177 - well, it's a little more than big iron that only flies into CAT II airports.
Plus, right now, the CC177 is the only FW transport asset that flies with the two pilots using NVGs into forward operating locations.
Tactical approaches are still flown "hands on" since the automation simply cannot keep up to the manoeuvring, bank angles, speeds and rates of descent required for the profiles.
Airdrop is still being developed, but the guys have to learn to walk before they run.
Airdrop will begin any day now (or so the leadership says).
It's all still up in the air right now WRT upgrade timing.

Walk a mile in the other "AMAG shoes" before making such broad, sweeping generalizations.

There's a lot more to these big, sacred AMAG cows ............ there's more to their flying than staying below 10,000' VFR around domestic Canadian Airspace and some of North America.  But that would be a broad sweeping generalization.

International IFR flying is a whole new ball game.

That being said, I know (2nd hand) of the immense challenges faced by SAR crews flying the Buff and Herc when it comes to fading daylight, night ops in the mountains, marginal weather and low altitude drops.  Very, very challenging flying by skilled crews that make us proud each day.  The guys here at 424 Sqn keep me appraised of their various harrowing experiences.  It's not easy by any stretch of the imagination.  While I have never flown SAR I can only imagine that it can be hair-raising and far from easy.  I am well aware that there is a lot to SAR than meets the eye.

Apples and oranges ......... one cannot be compared to another when it comes to how to time upgrades and run an OJTP.

Having spent the last 4 years developing OSS's, TS's and QS's for two fleets of transport aircraft I have learned that one fleet does not equal the other regardless of what each specific specialty thinks (SAT, TAT, SAR or AAR).

SAR is entirely different than TAT and SAT.  Each has its own challenges and unique characteristics.  One is not harder than the other.  They're just different, that's all.

Having 120,000 or 160,000 lbs of thrust does not make life easier than having a mere 6000 SHP.

Whatever upgrade timings are developed, will be developed by the SMEs of each role and fleet with AF Trg and various TDOs.

Bottom line:
It's a good time to be a pipe.  You now get to go DIRECTLY to every available fleet type in the CF inventory directly on your first tour and you will (performance pending) upgrade at some time in your career (at a time yet to be determined).

 

[Zoomie]

I digress in the interests of keeping this thread on topic. 

 

[C1Dirty]

That was good gents.

I agree, whether you're pushing buttons or hand flying, it's a pretty small part of the upgrade.  That sort of stuff gets sorted out pretty early in the game.

I was thinking that part of the rational behind the rumour (full tour as cone) might be retention.  A couple thousand C17/A310 PIC hrs  would open a lot of doors at the end of obligatory service.  Glad to hear none of it's true.

BTW...what's AMAG, I thought that was an advisory group. 

 

[Globesmasher]

Air Mobility Advisory Group