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Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

Now this is scary and coming to a city near you:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10203966306293667

Currently in the UK and spreading.  We have already seen calls for Sharia Law in Ontario in the past. 
 
If Dalton McGinty told them to pound salt, I'd venture to guess PM Harper would tell them the same thing.


I know what I would tell them.
 
Jim Seggie said:
If Dalton McGinty told them to pound salt, I'd venture to guess PM Harper would tell them the same thing.
I know what I would tell them.

If I remember correctly the Ontario government seriously considered allowing it until the public outcry put paid to it.....
 
GAP said:
If I remember correctly the Ontario government seriously considered allowing it until the public outcry put paid to it.....

That could be and I would imagine - hope - that the Canadian public would scream bloody murder.
 
In fact, as I recall (and I'm happy to be corrected), the Gov't of Ontario took away some longstanding Jewish religious court rights privileges, dealing with family law, to soften the blow, as it were. In the process they did the right thing: the Canadian civil law applies to everyone, equally, regardless of race or creed ~ no religious body (e.g. a rabbinical court) has any special status.
 
Transporter said:
If you leave this country to go fight in another, your whole immediate family (parents, siblings, spouse, children) should be subject to deportation. I'm betting this would make most, if not all of them, think twice.

And in the case of a third generation Scottish/Irish/English/French/Ukrainian citizen, or a Native that become a jihadi fighter?  Same solution?  Or does that only apply to immigrants? Second generation?  At what point do you consider someone to be a real citizen rather than one whose actions can result in the entire family being punished by the state? Where do send them?  If a citizen leaves to fight for a group like ISIS is that the same as joining the French Foreign Legion?  Who makes the call?  Half my troop in Afghanistan were Commonwealth soldiers in the British Army, being lead by a Canadian Forces member, under your idea they (and possibly me) would be stateless.

I  never viewed Canada as a country that exported its problems.  Canadian society and culture has failed the citizen who goes to join ISIS.  It, we, have failed to educate, instruct, and inculcate that person with our values, ethics, and ethos.  Possibly, in some cases, society and the health care system failed to identify and/or effectively treat someone with mental health problems.  None of those shortcomings would be solved by somehow convincing another country to accept our foreign fighters.

Edit: To add, the above statements only apply to those who are legally and properly citizens.
 
AmmoTech90 said:
And in the case of a third generation Scottish/Irish/English/French/Ukrainian citizen, or a Native that become a jihadi fighter?  Same solution?  Or does that only apply to immigrants? Second generation?  At what point do you consider someone to be a real citizen rather than one whose actions can result in the entire family being punished by the state? Where do send them?  If a citizen leaves to fight for a group like ISIS is that the same as joining the French Foreign Legion?  Who makes the call?  Half my troop in Afghanistan were Commonwealth soldiers in the British Army, being lead by a Canadian Forces member, under your idea they (and possibly me) would be stateless.

I  never viewed Canada as a country that exported its problems.  Canadian society and culture has failed the citizen who goes to join ISIS.  It, we, have failed to educate, instruct, and inculcate that person with our values, ethics, and ethos.  Possibly, in some cases, society and the health care system failed to identify and/or effectively treat someone with mental health problems.  None of those shortcomings would be solved by somehow convincing another country to accept our foreign fighters.

Edit: To add, the above statements only apply to those who are legally and properly citizens.


I agree, especially with the highlighted bit.

We have replaced a solid education (in classrooms and by example) in the virtues and values of our liberal, secular, democratic and capitalist culture with "rah-rah" flag waving patriotism and the weak tea of mulitculuralism.
 
The British government taking precautions concurrent with its involvement in Iraq...

Business Insider

UK Raises Terror Threat Level To 'Severe'
Business Insider
By Brett LoGiurato – 50 minutes ago


Britain's Prime Minister David Cameron (C) and Home Secretary Theresa May (3rd R) speak to Police Sergeant Gerry Harrison (R), during a visit to look at new community police crime prevention initiatives, including targeted CCTV and a new PC based mobile device, in Cheshunt, southern England July 17, 2013.

Britain's government has raised the country's terror threat level to "severe,"  Home Secretary Theresa May said Friday.

It's the fourth-highest of five potential threat levels. According to the U.K. government, it means an attack is "highly likely." But there is no intelligence to suggest an attack is imminent.

May said the threat level was raised in general because of the deteriorating situation in Iraq and Syria, where extremist militants from the group calling itself the Islamic State (also ISIS or ISIL). May said, however, that there was no specific threat to Britain that caused the raise in the terror level.

(...EDITED)
 
Many of these radicals are well known to the authorties in the UK.  If they cannot be deported because they are "citizens", perhaps they need to bring back internment camps for the radicals. 
 
Perhaps another reason for the increased terror alert in the UK:

Seized ISIS Laptop In Syria Contains Plans For 'Bubonic Plague' Weapons

By Tom Porter, IBTimes UK
on August 29 2014 11:45 AM
International Business Times

A laptop allegedly seized from an ISIS (also known as Islamic State) base in Syria contains plans to launch devastating terror attacks harnessing the bubonic plague.


Discovered by a moderate rebel group from an IS base in Idlib, northern Syria, in January, the computer belonged to a Tunisian militant and also contains instructions on how to build explosives, use disguises to travel undetected, and plans to build chemical weapons.

The advantage of biological weapons is that they do not cost a lot of money, while the human casualties can be huge," a document retrieved from the computer stated.

(...EDITED)
 
Wasn't there a group in N Africa a couple of years ago that were playing around with weaponizing the plauge and it got away from them?  Maybe these turds have got their shit together.  But don't health authorities have a grip on dealing with things like plague?  After all it's not the dark ages, well maybe it is in ISISville.
 
AmmoTech90 said:
And in the case of a third generation Scottish/Irish/English/French/Ukrainian citizen, or a Native that become a jihadi fighter?  Same solution?  Or does that only apply to immigrants? Second generation?  At what point do you consider someone to be a real citizen rather than one whose actions can result in the entire family being punished by the state? Where do send them?  If a citizen leaves to fight for a group like ISIS is that the same as joining the French Foreign Legion?  Who makes the call?  Half my troop in Afghanistan were Commonwealth soldiers in the British Army, being lead by a Canadian Forces member, under your idea they (and possibly me) would be stateless.

I  never viewed Canada as a country that exported its problems.  Canadian society and culture has failed the citizen who goes to join ISIS.  It, we, have failed to educate, instruct, and inculcate that person with our values, ethics, and ethos.  Possibly, in some cases, society and the health care system failed to identify and/or effectively treat someone with mental health problems.  None of those shortcomings would be solved by somehow convincing another country to accept our foreign fighters.

Edit: To add, the above statements only apply to those who are legally and properly citizens.

You probably should have read my post after the one you just quoted.
 
jollyjacktar said:
Wasn't there a group in N Africa a couple of years ago that were playing around with weaponizing the plauge and it got away from them?  Maybe these turds have got their shit together.  But don't health authorities have a grip on dealing with things like plague?  After all it's not the dark ages, well maybe it is in ISISville.



Hmmmmm?  Ebola?


Maybe that is the solution.
 
Norway is thinking of doing this:

Norway 'to Make Citizens Fighting for Isis Stateless'

Norway 'to Make Citizens Fighting for Isis Stateless'
By Gianluca Mezzofiore
August 27, 2014 11:17 BST

The Norwegian government has announced that it is considering revoking citizenship from individuals taking part in terrorist activities and wars in the Middle East.

Minister of children and equality Solveig Horne said that "this is a strong signal to people wanting to take part in terror operations and wars", according to TNB news site.

"We will turn over every stone to find the necessary measures to prevent radicalisation and extremism," she continued. "We will begin discussion about introducing regulations on revocation for any citizen causing serious damage to vital government interests or who has volunteered to serve in foreign military services."

The government is worried about Norwegian citizens who travel to Syria and Iraq to join the jihadists of Isis (known as the Islamic State). In May, a 25-year-old from Oslo, Egzon Avdyli, was reported to have been killed in Syria where he had been fighting for Isis.

The former leader of the Prophet's Ummah, a Norwegian Islamist Group, celebrated Avdyli's death on Facebook.

Norwegian intelligence said in its 2014 report that an estimated 40 to 50 Norwegians were thought to have fought in Syria with extremist groups like Isis and the al-Qaeda-linked al-Nusra front.

Jihadists returning to the Scandinavian country are considered the most dangerous terror threat to the country, according to a report in Aftenposten.

At least 100 Scandinavians are believed to have gone to Syria for jihad.

The debate over stripping Islamist militants of citizenship is also taking place in other European countries such as Britain.

The coalition government has come under pressure to impose tougher penalties on terrorists fighting in the Middle East. George Carey, the former archbishop of Canterbury, said jihadists should be stripped of their British passports and barred from returning to the UK.

His sentiments were echoed by David Davis, the Conservative backbencher. He said: "Lawyers would say you cannot render someone stateless. Perhaps, perhaps not," said Davis. "Whitehall lawyers have been wrong before. Democracies have a right to defend themselves."

The home secretary Theresa May said she already can remove citizenship from extremists with dual nationality. Naturalised Britons can also lose their passport according to a recently approved legislation.

But she warned she could not strip people born in Britain of their citizenship because it is illegal "for any country to make its citizens stateless".

The UK has ratified the 1954 UN Convention on Stateless Persons and the 1961 UN Convention on the Reduction of Statelessness which forbid governments to make their citizens stateless.
 
The biggest problem with this  Ebola epidemic is the outright lies by leaders, disbelief and superstition on the part of the people....they are their own worst enemy.
 
>It, we, have failed to educate, instruct, and inculcate that person with our values, ethics, and ethos.

"We" haven't failed; the bovine anti-establishmentarians who disregard the consequences of whatever they currently wish to tear down have not really torn down very much yet.  These are simply horses which refuse to drink the water that has been placed in front of them.

If a person leaves Canada to fight for another country, that's his burden, subject to one caveat: if he leaves Canada to fight against Canada, we should kill, incapacitate, or capture him.
 
jollyjacktar said:
I like it.  Let's start with "that family".

Random shot in the dark here, but just for fun I'm going to take a guess : Khadr family is whom you are referring to?
 
More on AmmoTech90's point. Because these people bring their "culture" and refuse to assimilate into the liberal, democratic, free market culture of the West. (The fact that our own "elites" in the media, academia and politics also seem to have rejected this culture is an issue for a different thread). The shameful culture of domestic abuse is alive and well in the UK (and by extension possibly everywhere there are large, unassimilated pockets of these cultures in the West):

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/29/-sp-untold-story-culture-of-shame-ruzwana-bashir

The untold story of how a culture of shame perpetuates abuse. I know, I was a victim
The extraordinary story of Ruzwana Bashir: the Oxford-educated entrepreneur brought up in a British-Pakistani community shares her own story to tear down the wall of silence around the exploitation of Asian girls
Ruzwana Bashir

A decade after leaving her home town of Skipton, Ruzwana Bashir finally felt able to return and testify against her abuser. Photograph: Kevin Abosch
Ruzwana Bashir
Friday 29 August 2014 17.49 BST

It was with a lump in my throat and tears in my eyes that I read about the horrific cases of abuse and neglect revealed in the Rotherham report this week.

Much of the media coverage has focused on how men of mostly Asian descent preyed on vulnerable young white victims. The details of this abuse are awful. But what has largely been ignored is the report’s finding that sexual abuse has been systemically under-reported among Asian girls due to deeply entrenched cultural taboos – obscuring the reality that there is a similarly rampant problem of minority girls being abused by members of their own community.

I have first-hand knowledge of this problem. I’m coming forward to publicly share my own story in the hope that I can encourage others to do the same and help tear down the wall of silence that perpetuates further abuse.

I grew up in a small community of a few hundred British-Pakistanis in Skipton, less than 60 miles from Rotherham. When I was 10 a neighbour started sexually abusing me. Paralysed by shame, I said nothing.

At 18 I was fortunate enough to receive an offer to study at Oxford University. I was enthralled with the exciting new world around me and tried desperately to fit in. I replaced my traditional shalwar kameez with jeans. I bared my shoulders and cut my hair. I socialised more than I studied and became president of the Oxford Union.

An internship at Goldman Sachs led to a job in private equity in London, and after a few years I moved to the US to get my MBA from Harvard Business School. But all the while, I knew the girls I had grown up with didn’t have the same opportunities – and that my abuser was probably still preying on other children.

It was only after a decade away from Skipton that I was finally able to garner the courage to return and testify against my abuser. When I first told my mother about the abuse I’d suffered, she was absolutely devastated. The root of her anger was clear: I was heaping unbound shame on to my family by trying to bring the perpetrator to justice. In trying to stop him from exploiting more children, I was ensuring my parents and my siblings would be ostracised. She begged me not to go to the police station.

If I’d still been living in Skipton, surrounded by a community who would either blame me for the abuse or label me a liar, I’m not sure I could have rejected her demands.

Once the police began the investigation another victim came forward. Sohail described how he too had been abused almost 20 years before I was. Due to our combined testimony, the perpetrator was jailed for eight years.

Within a few weeks another young woman in the community, emboldened by the conviction, told the police that a relative had raped her for several years. It had started before Sara was in her teens. We have supported her through the process of taking this to court.

Although Sohail and I had removed a proven paedophile from the community and helped empower another woman to end her torture, we were not celebrated. On the contrary, we were shunned.

The Rotherham report cites a home affairs select committee finding that cases of Asian men grooming Asian girls did not come to light in Rotherham because victims “are often alienated and ostracised by their own families and by the whole community, if they go public with allegations of abuse”.

This was our experience exactly – and the experience of everyone I’ve since spoken to. In each situation, victims and their families faced tremendous pressure to drop their cases.

During our investigation it became clear that for three decades many other women had suffered at the hands of our abuser, but they had refused to testify against him because of the indelible stigma it would bring. I learned that the parents of at least one of the victims had known their child had been abused but had done nothing. We also discovered that the larger community had long been aware of rumours of abuse by my neighbour but had chosen to ignore them – even when Sohail had attempted to come forward several years earlier.

This refusal to condemn perpetrators persists even after their conviction. Soon after our case, another convicted sex offender was released back into our community and was accepted as if nothing had happened. It was clear that the same would happen with our abuser.

Much has been made about the religious background of the offenders in the Rotherham report. But this problem isn’t about religion race: it’s about a culture where notions of shame result in the blaming of victims rather than perpetrators.

Although painful to read, the Rotherham report presents an opportunity. It’s an opportunity for leaders in the British-Pakistani community to stand up and speak out about the sexual and physical abuse in their midst. The Asian community isn’t unique in having evil-doers, and the overwhelming majority of its men and women are good people who care about protecting others.

I am and always will be proud of my Pakistani heritage, but I firmly believe community leaders must take responsibility for the fact that the taboos that prevent others from identifying perpetrators and supporting victims enable further abuse. And those taboos must be challenged.

The report also presents an opportunity to overhaul the public institutions that have failed in their responsibility to protect the defenceless – which includes everyone from the police to schools to social services.

On multiple occasions, beginning when she was 12, Sara went to her local GP and to walk-in clinics wearing her hijab to get the morning-after pill. She was never asked if she needed help. When she approached the police to share her story the CPS initially told her it would not pursue the case because there was too little evidence. It’s a testament to her resolve that she pushed back, demanding a chance to seek justice.

The system failed her, just as it has thousands of other children of all backgrounds.

We now have the chance to change that, and there are four immediate steps we should take to address this problem.

First, we need better training of social workers and police to effectively identify victims. The Rotherham report cited that one of the reasons for the widespread under-reporting of abuse among minority communities was the authorities’ focus on communicating with male leaders, who ignored the problem. Women and girls need to be included in these conversations, and government officials need to broaden the scope of their inquiries.

Second, we need mandatory reporting by people of authority when they signs of potential sexual abuse. One of the most damning parts of the Rotherham report was that schoolteachers were discouraged from reporting potential cases. For Sara, mandatory reporting by doctors serving young children could have saved her years of abuse.

Third, we need improved support for victims when they come forward. Sara’s case has been drawn out for far longer than expected, during which time she has faced pressure to withdraw her testimony. She has been passed from one counsellor to another, and struggled to get the help she needs to overcome her trauma. We need a judicial process that recognises the cost of delayed prosecutions for victims and better counselling services.

Fourth, we need a single person in each community who is accountable for ensuring these and other relevant policies are implemented. There are a lot of people with partial responsibility for this problem, but for this to be an effective, coordinated, comprehensive response, we need one individual who takes full responsibility for ensuring child sex exploitation is addressed and who can be held accountable for real change.

Some of these policies are already being implemented. But they are not being implemented everywhere, and they are not being implemented quickly enough.

The biggest risk of this terrible situation is that once the shock of this report dissipates, it will get swept under the rug, just like three previous reports in Rotherham. We cannot let that happen. We don’t need any further reports: we need system-wide change in the way we approach fighting sexual abuse against children of all backgrounds. This is not a problem in Rotherham or a problem in Oxford or a problem in Rochdale. This is a problem in the United Kingdom. And we need to tackle it together.

In the words of Edmund Burke, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good [people] to do nothing.” Let’s not be those people.

Some names have been changed to protect anonymity.

Ruzwana Bashir is co-founder and CEO of Peek.com, the one-stop shop to discover and book activities. She previously worked at Gilt Groupe, Blackstone and Goldman Sachs. She has an MBA from Harvard Business School where she was a Fulbright scholar, and a BA from Oxford where she was president of the Oxford Union.
 
The British show they are willing to go the distance to stop terrorism.

Military.com

UK: Passports Could Be Seized in New Terror Laws

Associated Press | Sep 01, 2014 | by Sylvia Hui
LONDON -- Prime Minister David Cameron on Monday proposed new laws that would give police the power to seize the passports of Britons suspected of having traveled abroad to fight with terrorist groups.

Speaking to Parliament, Cameron said his government is also working on plans to block such suspected British jihadi fighters from re-entering the U.K. The power to monitor such suspects who are already in Britain would also be strengthened.

The plans to widen Britain's anti-terror laws, which are likely to be approved by parliament, are aimed at preventing attacks by Islamist militants returning from terror training in trouble spots in the Middle East.


(...EDITED)
 
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