Islamic Terrorism in the West ( Mega thread)

[AbdullahD]

Editing my post for brevity and avoid circular arguments.


Which right of yours is violated by having a camera in a church or day care?  Did you watch the video in the link I posted? Somehow I doubt if I put my hands on your kids and treated them the way the children in the video are treated you would consider it a silly thing.

I'm more concerned about catching abuse where and when it's happening. In my opinion the trade off is worth it. The parents of the kid thrown around in the video I posted would have never known had it not been recorded. That camera may have even saved the kids life. Likewise we would have never known a Mosque in down town Toronto was talking about purifying the filth of the Jews had a camera not been involved.

Exactly right. As a parent there is no reason to monitor your children's online activity or who's talking to them.

I think you are missing my point, just because these heinous and disgusting things happen in a few extremely isolated instances. Is no reason, what so ever, to monitor everyone.

But if that is a legitimate reason, to you, then we must install cameras in homes as well. Because we all know abuse happens there as well.

I find it to be a silly idea, I give no weight to the paranoia that feeds these ideas and I will discount and stand against them as much as possible.

Just because one thing happens in one place, is no reason to get paranoid and watch everyone. If it is, you may not like where it stops.

 

[jollyjacktar]

But, Abdullah, if no camera is placed anywhere, you won't catch a thing.  Being wilfully blind to (whatever boogieman) won't make it go away or not happen.  That being said, I don't know what solution that would suit everyone would be...

 

[Jarnhamar]

I think you are missing my point, just because these heinous and disgusting things happen in a few extremely isolated instances. Is no reason, what so ever, to monitor everyone.

A few isolated instances? Come on Abdullah.  A quick google check of daycare abuse in Canada brings up quite a few hits. Pardon the poor pun.
A number of physical and sexual assaults.  Here's a video of a daycare provider slamming kids heads into a table.
http://montreal.ctvnews.ca/questions-after-lasalle-daycare-educator-caught-on-video-abusing-children-1.3229431

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/daycare+series+know+where+your+children/4387853/story.html
This woman in Surrey was hiding 24 kids at her day care. No big deal.


I'm going to guess if there were more hidden cameras inside places or worship we would see more concerning behavior and language.

But if that is a legitimate reason, to you, then we must install cameras in homes as well. Because we all know abuse happens there as well.

And surgically attach gopro cameras to peoples foreheads as well
reductio ad absurdum
I'm suggesting there are merits to placing cameras inside places where children can be exposed to various forms of abuse or conditioning. Places parents may not always be present to monitor or see whats going on.  There is ample evidence of the benefits of cameras inside daycare and the abuse it's catching. It's hardly a case of it just happening once or twice.

There are of course lots of examples of hate speech too.

Allah has created the woman deficient. If she doesn't wear the hijab we hit her.
Take the homosexual man and throw him off the mountain.
You have to live like a state within a state until you take over.
We hate the kuffarr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0mm5KCMI

Cure for aids, kill homosexuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w83kIAfuKoE

Being "found on the internet" hardly detracts from the legitimacy as a source. It's real and it's out there.

We're not going to agree so I'll leave it at that but I think you're purposefully being incognizant.

 

[Flavus101]

Cameras open up their own can of worms. You will almost never get full coverage from a camera system, what happens when an event that appears suspicious happens but moves off camera?

The UK operates a system of cameras that monitor public spaces, I personally am not a big fan of that (call me a pessimist about Big Brother). Placing government cameras inside "private" businesses seems to be a step even further towards Big Brother.

I don't deny that abuses happen, I just don't think the overall good that will be accomplished by this outweighs the overall bad. In my mind we need to look at re-establishing the "family" as the central tenant of society, that will help to solve our issues of constantly relying on the "State" to look after us and instil morals and standards into society.

 

[Jarnhamar]

XXX

 

[Kat Stevens]

I'm in the middle of pitching a TV project to Hollywood. It's a reboot of All in the Family, but instead of a NY cab driver, the main character is going to be an Islamic teacher in Toronto, and the working title is All in the Madrasa. Pure genius concept, he can spew all the bigoted shit that Archie Bunker did back in a less enlightened age, and because he's a Muslim, nobody can get upset! Liberals won't complain for fear of being labeled islamophobic, and the network would never dare to cancel it. Job security for life, plus the weaker minds out there get to be indoctrinated in the ways of Islam, sort of like they are now with the Kardashians.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I am of the belief that every religious institution needs to publish their sermons online either transcripts or video and the transcripts must be in either English or French. This is not much of a stretch as many churches already do that anyways. It will not stop all of the hate speech, but it will stop it being promoted as the official party line from the Pulpit.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Kat Stevens]  and the working title is All in the Madrasa.
[/quote]

Better than All in the Masada  ;D

 

[jollyjacktar]

Better than All in the Masada  ;D

That show was a dead end.

 

[Old Sweat]

That show was a dead end.

Groan!  :rofl:

 

[AbdullahD]

Jarnhamar I think I owe you and this site a better explanation of my opinion, or well a more nuanced one. My humor has been ill lately, so please forgive me for being short with you previously.

My understanding of your position is that, places of worship must be monitored via video to make sure no hate speech, abuses or basically any bad things happen there.. because we have seen videos and transcripts or reports of these things happening in places of worship.

My issue with that is that the negative things you speak of are generally extremely isolated issues. A quick search online lists via wiki that their are more then 90 Mosques in Canada. That does not count Musallahs, prayer rooms etc. In Kelowna alone we have one Mosque and 2 prayer rooms that are used for public prayers. Not to mention the musallah in penticton that does not qualify as a mosque and I would guess that there are far far more then 90 places of worship for Muslims alone in Canada. I would guesstimate 4-500 places of worship for Muslims in Canada or more.

Compare that to the 9, terrorist instances in Canada by Muslim extremists since 1999, (source ) and you will understand why I do not feel it is an issue to surveil all Mosques in Canada. I personally think watching issues like this to be a better use of taxpayers money. Of course I know you will tell me that, due to extremists mosques these people radicalized but that is a simplistic answer to an extremely complex question. I found one quick article about paths to radicalization to be of interest and they even try to give a solution too! (Suprising in this day and age) the article .

Now also our right wing.. (i do not want to call it news site because I find it is not worth that title) group the Rebel has a list of "extremists" or "radical" Imams link but I find the majority of who they list is either taken out of context, because I know the person and I know his opinion on the topic, or it is something that is completely legal to advocate for in Canada, so thus making it not worthy of surveillance. Mind you their was a couple I am not sure about, but I am not claiming there is no radical imams or mosques in Canada. I am arguing that mass surveillance is not needed or accetpable. Also furthermore quite a few Mosques in Canada already record and upload the sermons they have to online sources, so quite a number places are already voluntarily doing what you feel is best.

And now for why mass surveillance fails and is a bad idea, that creates more problems for stopping attacks.  All it does is breed an us vs them mentality, that divides Canadian Muslims against Canadians and leaves a fertile recruiting ground for extremist scum. Leaving law enforcement officers thousands upon thousands of extra hours of work to sift through, sermons, talks and actions of innocent people, they are wasting valuable time they could be using catching terrorists. The sheer costs to install surveillance equipment would be in the billions, the cost of extra manpower to effectively sift the material would be in the millions. All of that money would be better spent on initiatives like the CAVE conference Mufti Aasim Rashid had with the RCMP link. Combating youth unemployment, so they do not feel disenfranchised. Working with minority groups and reconciling why we are at war with so called Muslim groups to the community, more talking about the Afghanistan invasion then Daesh.

Now my give, in all of this, is if we do have an known radical Imam or Mosque, then yes, watch it. But as those links show, the RCMP likely know who all the radical or people susceptible to radicalization already are. So lets allocate our resources to watching the bad guys, not us innocent chaps who pick our nose during friday khutbah. Do you have any idea how embarrassing that would be if that gets videotaped and reviewd :S

My opinion will always be for smaller government interference in daily life and more personal liberty. So maybe we can not reconcile our two drastically different opinions, but alas, this is Canada I'm allowed to disagree

I hope this is better and more in tune with what is expected from me.

Abdullah

 

[Jarnhamar]

Jarnhamar I think I owe you and this site a better explanation of my opinion, or well a more nuanced one. My humor has been ill lately, so please forgive me for being short with you previously.

The devil is in the details, welcome back good neighbor 

My understanding of your position is that, places of worship must be monitored via video to make sure no hate speech, abuses or basically any bad things happen there.. because we have seen videos and transcripts or reports of these things happening in places of worship.

It was a theoretical supposition.  A Kellie Leitch, so to speak. Would it ever pass as a law? For a hundred reasons no.

Hypothetically speaking even though if it were to pass as a law, it would be superficial at best. You mention some mosques already DO post their sermons online and you're right. If you watched the link I posted above you would see that one of the stories was about a Mosque that publishes their sermons online but also has a secret password protected chat site where their Muslim message is quite different than what's spoken in front of the camera. 'Live as a state within a state until you are ready to take over' kind of stuff.

Lying is dishonest and dishonourable but it's context right?  Like, Taqiyya?. The lying to  Kafir (unbelievers) in order to advance the cause of Islam. "In some cases by gaining the trust of non-believers in order to draw out their vulnerability and defeat them". 
Tawriya as well is another interesting Muslim phrase- intentionally creating a false impression.


More on "context" coming up.

My issue with that is that the negative things you speak of are generally extremely isolated issues.

I think it happens more than people recognize. When the speaker in the Mosque in Toronto was talking about purifying the place and killing non-Muslims no one inside the mosque reported it. Even after a video of the speech was placed on line there was no uproar or media story. It only became news after someone made a complaint against the Mosque, I'm guessing, in retaliation after protestors were being investigated for hate speech. A little research and there it was.  Of course what was the first line of defense? Context. The murdering people stuff was taken in the wrong context. I'll be honest this whole "wrong context" seems to be the first line of defense when defending violence found in the Quran, including by yourself.

Besides someone blowing themselves up in a downtown Canadian city isn't always the end result of radicalization. Look at Robert Cerantonio, an Australian convert to Islam who is said to be instrumental in 2015 in talking to one of the 3 Canadian teenagers into attempting to travel to Syria and support ISIS. Luckily the 3 idiots were intercepted by the police.
CSIS is tracking some 60 Canadians who returned to Canada after supposedly fighting for ISIS. How many Canadians do you think are over there now supporting them?


You mentioned the Rebel.

but I find the majority of who they list is either taken out of context, because I know the person and I know his opinion on the topic

Of course, wrong context, again.

I am arguing that mass surveillance is not needed or accetpable.

Oversight is important when you're dealing with impressionable students.
If you attend basic training in the military you will see a desk at the back of your classrooms. That desk will have a copy of the lesson plan you are being taught and any applicable reference material. This is so staff members or people working in standards can stop by classes at random and sit down to watch and listen to the class. Ensure the instructor is teaching the proper material, not talking out of their ass and not going off the rails teaching their own shit. I personally hate it however I've seen cases of why it's 100% needed and required.

  All it does is breed an us vs them mentality, that divides Canadian Muslims against Canadians and leaves a fertile recruiting ground for extremist scum.

I wish I could recall a great quote about this. To paraphrase- if Muslims are that easily offended and can become radicalized because of silly reasons then they were bound to be radicalized anyways and just looking for a reason.

Leaving law enforcement officers thousands upon thousands of extra hours of work to sift through, sermons, talks and actions of innocent people, they are wasting valuable time they could be using catching terrorists.

Not exactly correct. Nothing stops joe blow citizen from watching an online sermon and filing a complaint with the police when they see something they deem hate speech. In fact, that is exactly how the fellow in Toronto was caught. A citizen filed a complaint after seeing it online. No thousands and thousands of extra police hours required.

Besides, the Liberals already hired some 55 people to scour online sources in Canada for hate speech.


If you don't mind me asking what's your views on Taqiyya and Tawriya?

 

[foresterab]

AbdullhaD and Jarnhamer,

I'd like to thank you for the discussion you have shared here.  Definitely some interesting points to make a person consider the differences in opinions and positions within Canadian society and while I can relate to parts of both of your positions I've been following the discussion for a couple of weeks to see how this comes out.

So thank you for the civilized debate on how the positions shake out and the information shared.

foresterab

 

[AbdullahD]

I will touch on a couple things only, I am relaxing in bed

First thing, some thing you touched on is one 'toned down' sermon in english, for the masses and one far more radical for "devout" in a different language. One simple flaw in this, in many many Mosques is.. we all do not speak the same language lets talk about Kelowna and Kamloops. We have Bosnian, Syrian, Somalian, Nigerian, Saudi, Pakistani, Bengali, Indian (native and east ), Canadian, Moroccan, South African Muslims in both of those Mosques.. and they do not all speak the same language.

So maybe, in some isolated instances (which is the main bone of my arguement) this is the case. But not in the rest of Canada. Heck sometimes you have a Pakistani guy leading the khutbah, reciting arabic so badly, because he does not understand it at all, that the arabs do not have a clue what he is saying. (It happens.. quite often ). So yea maybe a lot of people try to speak arabic in the khutbah, but that does not make it intelligible.

Second thing, you imply that Muslims do not self report. Anecdotally I can tell you that is not the case, but I will one up that too. So I like to say trump is wrong, that Muslims do self report, because I dare say the FBI would know . Also Muslims are become much more aware of issues that pertain directly to Muslims. So if we can flag things as they come up we are ahead of the game.

Thirdly, this more eccentric? Idea you have that we are like a sleeper cell just waiting for the code word to rise up and take over... gosh darn it, you figured us out, the games over, you win I wish you could understand how ludicrous this sounds man, it is darn near impossible to get all Muslims to agree on when Ramadan starts and end, when Eid is, wether to celebrate the Prophets birthday or heck even when to hold an open house to dispell myths about Islam.. if you could see the pettiness that goes on in Mosques around Canada regarding these issues, you would sleep like a baby at night. But this does not negate that, the 1% of lunatics may be doing some idiotic thing like this, but it does not mean we all are.

Fourthly, context. Sorry, but I do not trust anything, at all, unless I know the complete context. Just like a guy pointing and firing a firearm at another person, context matters. If a guy is robbing a bank and does it, he is a murderer and deserves the gallows. But if he is a soldier under fire, it is something completely different. So until we know who, when, why, where etc something was said or done, their is absolutely no point in making any judgements on it. Especially with Islam you need to understand, who, were, when, why and how it was traditionally or classically, implemented and contrast that to this day and age and compare it to the legal framework of the sharia, before passing judgement.

Fifthly, you asked about my opinion on something to do with Islamic sharia. Well my opinion is worth mud on these matters, I am in now way, shape or form eligible to pass an opinion on them. But here is a read up on taqqiya, but I swear I have covered it before already.. or maybe not, a lot of Islamophobes scream taqqiya and it is quite annoying, to be honest. Tawriya was it? God, they are getting creative these days, heck I honestly did not know what the word meant and when I went to look it up.. all it showed was anti-Islam sites for the first little while. Any rate, I would just say review the link I used for taqqiya. Tawriya, ommitting facts or creative interpretations of the truth is haram in almost every single case. Another link that is weak from a scholarly perspective but short and lists the only three times a Muslim can lie and kind of out lines limitations so taking these two links together, i think you will get the picture.

I am sticking to my guns that Muslims do self report as the FBI said, mass surveillance is futile as my multiple links early showed and we should zero in on other things. Btw I have been trying to down an extremist page on facebook for a while and it will not come down, they hold Anwar awlaki and others like him as martyrs.. lets just say I am up to 3 or 4 death threats now . Next step since Facebook is not shutting it down is the RCMP. Also I did not ignore your bmq example on purpose, i just forget about it and do not feel it is apples to apples here and it is now 29 minutes past when i wanted to be asleep so I am going to crash.

Abdullah

Ps ForesterAb, I am honestly amazed at this conversation myself. Do not tell anyone, but I had to learn some stuff to supply answers on here too. But please remember I am not a scholar, I try to only quote legitimate scholars.. but if I slip up, please forgive me and do not hold it against me. I am extremely fearful, that while i try to clear up these misconceptions, i accidentally give out incorrect info due to being lazy and someone believes something that I never meant to convey. Any rate thank you 35 minutes past bedtime now night guys.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I will touch on a couple things only, I am relaxing in bed

Some fatwas for the bedroom eh?

1).

First thing, some thing you touched on is one 'toned down' sermon in english, for the masses and one far more radical for "devout" in a different language. One simple flaw in this, in many many Mosques is.. we all do not speak the same language

Here's some stuff I pulled from an undercover video taken over 4 months. Fluent English.

[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btx0mm5KCMI]
Green Lane Mosque in Birmingham UK. .
1:39- "I don't believe them because they are Kuffar and lying is a part of their religion" (some irony there)
2:30- Christians, Jews, America, UK, France,Germany  "Come against the religion of Islam"  (what does the Quran say to do with people who go against Islam again?_
2:50- American convert to Islam- "We want to do away with man made laws"
4:09- Speaker doesn't agree with violent terrorists, but he's closer to them then the criminal kaffir.
4:39- If a Muslim doesn't follow their strict rules "bury him with the Kaffir"
4:51- "Muslims shouldn't be happy living in anything other than a total Islamic state"

I'll stop there but there's almost an hour of this stuff.

Green lane mosque also has a secret chat room set up where other sermons get broadcasted to a select group of followers. Any guesses on what they talk about?

Sorry Abdullah, because of videos like this I'm not buying the "extremely isolated instances" mantra.

2).

Second thing, you imply that Muslims do not self report. Anecdotally I can tell you that is not the case

If that is what I came across as implying then that's mistaken. Luckily Muslims do self-report. From reporting their peers down to reporting their own family members (as incredibly hard as I imagine that is). I think there's considerable obstacles that come with "self-reporting" such as the threat of violence and ostracization.  I think in many cases too people don't see things talking about killing unbelievers as hate speech because they've become accustomed to hearing it.

3).

Thirdly, this more eccentric? Idea you have that we are like a sleeper cell just waiting for the code word to rise up and take over... gosh darn it, you figured us out, the games over, you win I wish you could understand how ludicrous this sounds man

I don't think I was implying that at all. You're kind of moving the goal posts there.  I've said numerous times I think the flash to bang of how quick followers of Islam go from every day people to violent outraged mobs is much quicker and pronounced than any other religion.


4).

Fourthly, context. Sorry, but I do not trust anything, at all, unless I know the complete context. Just like a guy pointing and firing a firearm at another person, context matters. If a guy is robbing a bank and does it, he is a murderer and deserves the gallows. But if he is a soldier under fire, it is something completely different. So until we know who, when, why, where etc something was said or done, their is absolutely no point in making any judgements on it. Especially with Islam you need to understand, who, were, when, why and how it was traditionally or classically, implemented and contrast that to this day and age and compare it to the legal framework of the sharia, before passing judgement.

This simply seems like a convenient way to justify unacceptable by todays standard speech to me.
"Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like' I don't think they're talking about which direction to drive there.

5).

Fifthly, you asked about my opinion on something to do with Islamic sharia. Well my opinion is worth mud on these matters, I am in now way, shape or form eligible to pass an opinion on them.

Now I find that very strange. Why aren't you able to pass an opinion on them Abdullah?  An opinion is just an opinion after all. With the amount of Mosques you've visited, your Islamic contacts all over the world, all the reading and reasearch you've down and your self-professed love of the academic side if Islam I would think you're in an exceptional position to offer an opinion.  But, I've noticed you often respond to questions like this by attempting to send the question asker elsewhere to read up on someone elses words. Other websites.

If I was a suspicious sort.... I would wonder if this was a subtle attempt to spread the word of Islam  >
But really, I find it quite strange.



6).

But here is a read up on taqqiya, but I swear I have covered it before already.. or maybe not, a lot of Islamophobes scream taqqiya and it is quite annoying, to be honest.

What's your definition of an Islamophobe, Abdullah?



7).

I am sticking to my guns that Muslims do self report as the FBI said

No disagreement here


8).

lets just say I am up to 3 or 4 death threats now . Next step since Facebook is not shutting it down is the RCMP.

You'll have an easier time getting FB to shut down the page if you report them for being right wing.

9).

Also I did not ignore your bmq example on purpose, i just forget about it and do not feel it is apples to apples here

I'll wait for it to sink in 

 

[Jarnhamar]

Words from a Canadian Ex-Muslim.

http://www.sedaa.org/2017/03/where-is-the-solidarity-with-ex-muslims/

If you prick us, do we not bleed?

In the Merchant of Venice, Shakespeare wrote those words for a Jew to say, but today, those words will come from the mouth of an ex-Muslim.

I normally try to stay positive and veer far away from the victimhood narrative, as I was raised to think of myself as a victim when I was a Muslim. I was taught that the big, bad non-believers all hated us and wanted us dead and don’t care about us and that we should hate them back, we should never trust them, and indeed, that we should kill them.

But growing up in Canada, I saw no evidence of that. My teachers weren’t Muslim, but they were kind and loving.

More at the link.


On the Author

Yasmine is a Canadian citizen of an Arab background. She has written a memoir about her journey out of Islam, ‘Some of my best friends are Jewish, and other confessions of an ex-Muslim’.

She endured decades of physical and mental torture. She was forced into a marriage with a member of Al Qaeda, after he was bailed out of prison by Osama bin Laden himself.  She wore a niqab, and lived in a home/prison with paper covering all the windows. Yet, somehow, with nothing but a high school diploma and a baby in tow, she got out.

 

[AbdullahD]

1) Muslims represent, 4.5% of the UK's population coming in around 2.7 million adherents and you found one mosque. Now if you were finding hundreds of Mosques spewing extremist crap, then I would give you a leg to stand on. But yes the bad, is very bad and it exists, but it does not mean the majority of Muslims are bad.

2) Sorry I misread you there, my bad. But I highly doubt we are desensitized to hate speech, any Imam who talks about killing the kuffar, gets noticed and reported. I have access to two tafsirs of Quran and the verses people use to legitimize killing the non-believers are not explained that way in the Tafsirs and Qurans i have seen. But yea, if you take it out of context it is easy to get there. But I assure you stuff like this is not widespread. I am on the road right now ill try to find something later to back my stuff up.

3) Twice I misread you, again I am sorry. I think the so called 'flashbang' has more to do with cultural, political or social issues then religious issues. Otherwise the Muslim countries that do not have these flashbang issues, would. Also looking to the riots in the US and protests etc.. I think I have something to stand on.

4) Oh the things I will never get you to agree on but I understand your viewpoint and I can respect that but I do not agree.

5) If you ask my opinion on things not to do with sharia principles, guidelines or laws. Ill give you an opinion. But if you ask my opinion on those things, it is the equivalent of asking a first year engineering student to design you plans for a thermo-nuclear reactor or some such nonsense, i simply do not have a strong enough grounding and I am not confident enough to give opinion. Until and unless I get that well rounded education, I won't give opinions.

I hope that suffices.. but then again, if you became Muslim, I just have to say, i would probably find myself extremely amused at the irony lol. But alas I assure you I am not doing that.

6) if it makes any sense I consider you a critic, not an Islamophobe. My definition, which i have never articulated is basically.. Anyone who has a fear or phobia of Islam but lacks even the most rudimentary knowledge of Islam and actively combats Islam out of ignorance. You, I find you to be a critic of Islam, because you seem to actually know some things about Islam. So I guess knowledge and how actively you fight against Islam makes the difference. If you are ignorant but do not do anything either, I would not consider that person an Islamophobe.

7) 99 more points to go

8) I agree with that sadly.

9) once my gut falls off and I finish BMQ, I will get back to you

 

[Flavus101]

AbdullahD, I am one that for the most part stays on the sidelines. However I appreciate both jarnhamar and yourself discussing this topic in a civil manner. It helps people like myself gain insight into the various topics.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Now their are things that are covered by Islamic law and the sharia.. and things that are not. There are things that are considered obligatory and things that are considered encouraged or neutral or disliked. The sharia gets a lot of hate, because people misinterpret it and force people to do things (which i may add is forbidden).

I am a believer that the Sharia is comprehensive, but not exhaustive. Ie within the sharia you can find tips for how to get deals suchs as getting three quotes for a price before buying.. but it is not obligatory to follow these guidelines and the sharia wont explain to you why GMC products are so much better then Ford's.

The sharia's main goal is to get everyone to paradise, outside of this main goal there is a lot  of lee way. Heck the sharia will teach you sex etiquette but it is hardly obligatory to follow it all lol, so yea it is comprehensive and the more you follow it the closer to God you can become but! You dont need to follow every single thing.

As you can see above it seems you are confident in telling us what Sharia's main goal is and feel it is comprehensive. Not something suggested by a neophyte.
But now you don't have an opinion on anything relating to it? I'm sure you understand my confusion  ???

6) if it makes any sense I consider you a critic, not an Islamophobe.

Thanks Abdullah I appreciate that though I wouldn't have been insulted had you said otherwise. According to many definitions even disliking the religion of Islam makes me an Islamophobe.
As far as fear goes if I have a fear of something it's that that Canada will begin looking like Germany, Sweden, France etc.. while our leaders live in gated communities with armed security waving to the rest of Canada telling us everything is fine (that's possibly crossing over into another topic though).



With that, I believe I've said all I can on the subject and I'm just going in circles. I will bow out for the time being until I can offer something more substantial.

 

[AbdullahD]

My first quote was dealing with a specific thing, you wanted my opinion on, something that scholars need to give fatawa on. And something I lack the ability to reproduce from memory.

My second quote are general statements that I believe to be true and can attribute to different scholars directly. So I can trust myself their. Mufti Aasim Rashid, Mufti Menk, Mufti Abu Layth, Mufti Atabek Shukrov etc etc for the misinterpret one. Moulana Mazhar, Moulana Islamullah etc for the Sharia being comprehensive. Regarding the sharias main goal is to get someone to paradise, just about every scholar I have ever talked to.

But something as complex as taqqiya or other such things or things even outside my madhab, I can not answer because I simply don't have a solid enough grounding.

If you want Islamic sex etiquette get a book by Mufti Ibn Adam Al Kawthri I think it is. Neat book

I am not a debater usually, so maybe I do not convey what I mean very well on occasion and to be bluntly honest, sometimes I give opinion when I really should not. So sometimes I am strict on it, other times i slip up, but generally speaking I dislike strongly giving and have severe worries about giving opinions on the sharia. But that does not mean I won't screw up, if you see my occasionally screw up and give opinion, just know I do not like it.

Ps also i know my explanation is weak, i am noticing that now and trying to build a better guideline on how I handle these issues in the future. To be honest, this site, is the only place, in the world, were I have to worry about this. So I lack a more defined framework regarding it, but I am working on it and will try to stick to the framework I develop so i do not become a hypocrite.