Is there controversy over Latest Awards to AFG Troops ?

[Reccesoldier]

Yes I do know people who personally were nominated, people who went above and beyond some of the people already awarded, and they were squashed due to this popularity contest going on.

Really?

QR&O Vol 1
18.05 – RECOMMENDATIONS FOR AWARD
   
When a recommendation for the award of an order or decoration has been made, it shall not be divulged to the officer or non-commissioned member concerned or to any of the member’s relatives, nor shall a relative of a deceased or missing member be informed that a recommendation would have been made had the member remained with his unit.

In addition, no one outside of the chain of command, and then only those that "NEED TO KNOW" should ever "know" a reccommendation has been made.

In addition

CFAO 18-15

RECOMMENDATIONS
4.     Recommendations for the award of any of these decorations shall be
prepared and forwarded to NDHQ in accordance with Annex A and 18-4.

5.     All recommendations are considered by the Canadian Decorations
Advisory Committee prior to submission to the Governor General for
approval. This committee is comprised of the following members, or their
duly designated alternate members:

     a.   Clerk of the Privy Council;

     b.   Secretary to the Governor General;

     c.   Under Secretary of State;

     d.   Deputy Minister of National Defence;

     e.   Deputy Minister of Transport;

     f.   Commissioner of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police;

     g.   Dominion Fire Commissioner; and

     h.   not more than three other members appointed by the Governor
          General.

Once a reccomendation is made it goes directly to NDHQ and the Canadian Decorations Advisory Committee prior to submission to the Governor General.  So are you saying that the GG or her staff are bias against the troops? Or perhaps you're implying that she knows the potential recipients well enough to be engaged in a "popularity contest".

If there is any discrepancy between NCM and Officers getting the recognition they deserve it it the fault of the NCO's and Junior Officers on the ground and in the sh!t for not giving recognition, it is not the fault of the senior officers who are recognizing their subalterns.

 

[TheHead]

Really?

No one outside of the chain of command, and then only those that "NEED TO KNOW" should ever "know" a reccommendation has been made.

In addition

CFAO 18-15

Once a reccomendation is made it goes directly to NDHQ and the Canadian Decorations Advisory Committee prior to submission to the Governor General.  So are you saying that the GG or her staff are bias against the troops? Or perhaps you're implying that she knows the potential recipients well enough to be engaged in a "popularity contest".

If there is any discrepancy between NCM and Officers getting the recognition they deserve it it the fault of the NCO's and Junior Officers on the ground and in the sh!t for not giving recognition, it is not the fault of the senior officers who are recognizing their subalterns.

Well somehow I knew about it, hearsay my friend.  Of course it's not the fault of the senior officers on the board. It's the fault of the immediate NCOs and Junior Officers I agree with you 100%.  There needs to be some type of investigation set up when someone in nominated for an award.  Soldiers who were with the said individual the day of the earned the Award need to be interviewed due to accountability.  I don't want to turn this into a pissing match saying some soldiers do or don't deserve Awards, every single soldier who earned them did their job and did them well.  That's the problem though, some Soldiers are getting awards just for doing their jobs and not for the proper criteria that the award follows.   

 

[Reccesoldier]

How do I know this? If a mod needs to know so as to substanciate my comments, please PM me. 

Yes Mod's please do

 

[hank011]

 
I'm just disappointed that there werent more awards for non officers or CO's. I like to think that the military is more proffessional than that.

I'm sure they are all super duper people.

 

[geo]

Hank.... If you have read the thread you will note that there is just a wee possibility that there just might be more awards still winding their way thru the bureaucracy?

Unless you know something that we don't.

 

[North Star]

Having sat on an awards committee in a theatre, I can say that like any human process, the honours and awards system has its flaws. The CO of my unit at the time declared that it was next to "impossible" for an officer to be given a medal for bravery or meritorious service, as by definition an officer is supposed to be brave and meritorious at all times. We mainly granted awards to Ptes/Cpls who used their initiative, as it should be. Then when the recommendations got to the NCE, the principle of merit went out the window as drivers started being nominated for not getting into accidetns, etc.

I agree with earlier posts - if somebody did something that you feels merits an award, write it down and submit it to the CofC. If awhile later nothing happens, fire the paperwork off to an MP and engage that angle. At the most, the MP will direct it to the MND and it will be considered again, at the lest you've given it another kick at the cat. I don't want to arm everyone with the idea of violating the chain of command, but in this area it can be flawed and if you're willing to stand up and maybe get a blast so somebody is recognized, do it. 

 

[little jim]

I am going to join the band wagon here and ask people to chill for a bit – I am sure that there is more coming down the pipe.

If you do a quick scan back on the gg.ca site you can see that for awards (glib call made by me in 2 minutes for AFG) the NCMs got 38 and the Officers 17.

How come when the awards on 27 Oct where annaouced no one cried where were the Officer’s one’s?  How come (aside from US decorations that went to OC and CSM) no one cried where were the officer decorations in 2002?

To quote Willy from Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels---- "Chill, Winston..."

Just relax and lets not let timing distract from the actions of everybody in theatre. 

 

[hank011]

I am going to join the band wagon here and ask people to chill for a bit – I am sure that there is more coming down the pipe.
If you do a quick scan back on the gg.ca site you can see that for awards (glib call made by me in 2 minutes for AFG) the NCMs got 38 and the Officers 17.
How come when the awards on 27 Oct where annaouced no one cried where were the Officer’s one’s?  How come (aside from US decorations that went to OC and CSM) no one cried where were the officer decorations in 2002?
To quote Willy from Lock, Stock and two smoking barrels---- "Chill, Winston..."
Just relax and lets not let timing distract from the actions of everybody in theatre. 

Good advice. I'm kinda tired of so many people trying to tell me what a bad person I am and not discussing the subject.

 

[Dirty Patricia]

You're so very right.  Major Fletcher is my OC, don't get me wrong he was in the thick of it but I have yet to see ONE soldier in my company who deserves it get recognized yet 4 NCOS and 2 Officers have been awarded medals.   Sad how the Private and Corporal always get shafted and the giving of Awards has turned into a "You're my buddy, you deserve something" mentality.

Head,
In your platoon there were 5 MiDs - 1 to a MCPL, 2 to Cpls and 2 to Ptes (1 posthumous).

 

[TheHead]

Head,
In your platoon there were 5 MiDs - 1 to a MCPL, 2 to Cpls and 2 to Ptes (1 posthumous).

I know there was. I'm not gonna argue the semantics on if most of the deserved them or not.  Also the Posthumous Pte Kevin Dallaire that day should have received something a little more deserving for his actions.

 

[TheHead]

But that's beside the point I'm not going to take away from someone's accomplishment.  My complaint is with the people who DESERVE them not getting them.  Lt Col Anderson our CO cleared a lot of this issue up with us this morning and I'm a little more educated on the issue thanks.  I still think there are flaws in the system and issues of accountability but what was said this morning cleared most of it up.

 

[Weinie]

 The buzz around the Palace on the Rideau (where I work) is that there is one shiite pile of awards and medals coming down the pipe, and it is just a matter of time until they work their way through the technicolor tape. BZ to all

 

[geo]

Uhhh... prolly "most"

 

[Armymedic]

Geez, Gentlemen...that tour is not even over yet. Most decoration recommendations take longer then a day.

 

[Just a Guy]

It always make me tremendously sad when I read or hear people discussing favortism etc...  I am always reminded of something one of my unit padres used to say to us about promotions....  Although there may be many that are deserving and are recognized there are equally many that go unoticed and that is sad and perhaps unjust, but should we hold it against those that are recognized, or would we be happy if they too fell between the cracks....  Can we not be disappointed for those who have been missed without losing that fierce joy and pride in those that have been recognized. I like to think I serve in a better army. I for one celebrate every deserving promotion, bravery award and public comment for every individual.

Just a Guy

 

[Daidalous]

A medal or award for a outstanding job, or heroic act is the best way to reward someone, although most people never get what they deserve.

Reminds me of the conversation my old man had with me the day I joined up.  "There are 3 things that will effect the rank you retire at. 1. How well you can do your job.  2. How much the Mcpl writting your PER wants to fight for you. 3.  How well you can play Hockey.  If you suck at the first two just skate faster."

 

[Weinie]

  And the older I get, the faster I used to be  ;D

 

[geo]

Daidelous.... A wise old man.

If being chased by a pack of ravenous wolves, you don't have to be the fastest in the group..... just faster than the slowest one......... that way you can start your flanking manouver

 

[3rd Herd]

Nothing an obscure historian likes better than controversy.Next will we have the good ole time honored fight over which regiment got more or less than it's deemed fair share. If the military don't write the wrongs, history certainly will.  Well done to all

 

[Roy Harding]

Have a look at this thread:

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/57372.0

Gives a little perspective, doesn't it.

Edit:  Quoted someone out of context - (Hit Quote instead of Reply)