Ignorance of civvies...

[Centurian1985]

Yes...well...consider the two locatoins you're referring to here....

Cheers

Could you amplify?

 

[Michael OLeary]

Could you amplify?

See http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/42246/post-384205.html#msg384205

 

[Jungle]

Could you amplify?

OK, I'll try: "CONSIDER THE TWO LOCATIONS YOU'RE REFERRING TO HERE !!!"
Better ??

 

[Centurian1985]

Haha, I should have expected some humourous response (although Jungle's was the funniest of the two).

Perhaps I should amplify...

PBI, are you implying that Alberta is pro-military while BC is anti-military?  ???  If so, I would strongly disagree! 

 

[medicineman]

PBI, are you implying that Alberta is pro-military while BC is anti-military?  ???  If so, I would strongly disagree!  

Hmmm, I grew up in BC and joined the Reserves and the Reg Force there as well - I would have to agree that BC'ers only tolerate the military to the extent that they give a whole lot of jobs to a few areas - otherwise you haven't been around Esquimalt, Nanoose or Comox, especially back in the nuke days when it was like a hippy feeding frenzy out there.  I can remember some hippy freaking out at us "mortaring fish" in a creek one day (tossing tflashes into somewhere NO fish could live, much less spawn) because we were disturbing his poetry writing.  When I was posted in Calgary, we got a nice welcome home from Yugo in 94 and nobody called me a babykiller or any other foolish thing while I was there.

MM

 

[Centurian1985]

I was asking pbi, but since you replied...

Hmmm, I grew up in BC and joined the Reserves and the Reg Force there as well

Well, hello, I grew up in BC as well, did reserves there and later joined the reg force, and I completely disagree.

I would have to agree that BC'ers only tolerate the military to the extent that they give a whole lot of jobs to a few areas - otherwise you haven't been around Esquimalt, Nanoose or Comox, especially back in the nuke days when it was like a hippy feeding frenzy out there. 

Havent been to Nanoose, but have been to Victoria/Esquimalt, Nanaimo, Comox, Chilliwack (all military towns) and a hundred small towns across the province.  Now, are you talking about local residents and shop-keepers, or the local beatnik culture who picked mushrooms and went on environmental crusades, or the guys you ran into at bars who saw you as competition for local female attention?  Because yes the beatniks and civi guys at bars would definately be hostile.  I will admit seeing anti-military sentiments in three places: Victoria, Vancouver and Chilliwack.  Victoria and Vancouver are well known Liberal strongholds, but the rest of the province in mostly conservative or NDP.  Chilliwack is in the 'bible belt' and was probably influenced by decades of young trainees from the local base tearing into town, getting drunk, and getting their daughters pregnant.  That tends to annoy parents of said daughters in all parts of the country, not just BC.   I, and many of my fellow soldiers, also encountered this same attitude at numerous bars in Calgary, Edmonton, Lethbridge and Wainwright.  Does this mean that Alberta is anti-military? No, it means that male bar patrons dont like us military guys with steady paychecks and snappy uniforms stealing away the women they see as 'theirs'. (Very much a caveman image but thats how it is).  I also recall being in Ottawa and a local guy got into an argument with our guys over his perception of mis-use of military property.  Does this mean that Ottawa is anti-military?

I can remember some hippy freaking out at us "mortaring fish" in a creek one day (tossing tflashes into somewhere NO fish could live, much less spawn) because we were disturbing his poetry writing. 

I'm sorry but this does little to support your argument.  A great many soldiers would also be angry at your throwing t-flashes into a creek and would not have hesitated to call the police, never mind how 'hippies' reacted.  I also knew a 3VP soldier back in the late 1980's who would get dressed in camoflauge and illegally hunt deer with pistols in the northern island area, and it didnt impress me then either.  Call me old-fashioned but I dont call that responsible soldiering.   

When I was posted in Calgary, we got a nice welcome home from Yugo in 94 and nobody called me a babykiller or any other foolish thing while I was there.

No sarcasm or any negative comment on this - Im glad they were out there, you and the rest of our guys deserved it.  Personally, I've come 'home' to many areas of the country and the only reception I ever cared about, or got, was the missus waiting for me once I got off the plane.  Might have been nice to have seen a band or a senior officer for a change.  Oh wait, one time the RCMP and customs guys let us bring in our extra cigarettes for free because they didnt have the proper tobacco rates on hand (thats their story and they're sticking to it!).   

The one incident that struck me from pbi's comment was on the ferry.  Ive been on the BC Ferry hundreds of times.  Ive never had anyone ever come up to me and insult me or spit at me, and we used to travel in uniform across that ferry a lot, and Ive never seen it done to another military member.  I traveled by air many times across our country and never seen our cadets or service members abused at airports.  Its unfortunate that this group of cadets had to put up with this, and unfortunate for the adults escorting them who couldnt respond in an appropriate manner due to needing to set an example for the kids.  But not everyone who rides the BC Ferry is a BC citizen, most of the people are tourists from other parts of the country or other countries.  Or worse, they are part of the fringe culture who like to come to live in BC because they can get stoned with less chance of freezing to death in the woods overnight.  These people should not be viewed as typical BC inhabitants!

(to) Sumup! - I may be biased or possibly just never ran into a person who acted that way towards me.  But I'm willing to hear evidence - Is there anyone else out there with negative experiences (anti-military sentiments) in BC?

 

[paracowboy]

Sumup! - I may be biased or possibly just never ran into a person who acted that way towards me.  But I'm willing to hear evidence - Is there anyone else out there with negative experiences in BC?

you sum up, and do a search. There are literally pages of troops complaining about the shabby treatment they receive in BC, and the positive ones they receive in Alberta.

 

[Centurian1985]

The 'sumup' was in reference to my rambling, not other posters.

 

[Centurian1985]

Yes, I did a search on BC/B.C. + spit/face/shabby/hippy/treatment, and gave up after 20 pages with no positive results. 

Drafted an elaborate response, but in the end, what was the point? If people want to believe BC is shitty due to personal experience, they're not going to change their mind because I disagree no matter what argument I present. 

To all who had bad experiences here on the West Coast, hope your next visit is better in 2010, and hope you are enjoying yourselves where you are now.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Well, I spent 14 of my 23 years in Chilliwack.  The only time that anyone gave a flying rodents rectum about us was when the closure was announced and the gravy train pulled out, headed east to a place that welcomed us with open arms.  I was raised in BC too, and it pains me to say this.

 

[Bartok5]

Well, I spent 14 of my 23 years in Chilliwack.  The only time that anyone gave a flying rodents rectum about us was when the closure was announced and the gravy train pulled out, headed east to a place that welcomed us with open arms.  I was raised in BC too, and it pains me to say this.

What Kat said, and then some.  I grew up on Vancouver Island, and went on to serve 7 years in BC as both a Reservist and Regular.  The difference in attitude between there an my current posting in AB is quite literally night and day.  Suffice it to say that my interactions with the general populace of BC have done zero to garner my personal respect and goodwill.  AB has been the exact opposite. 

I certainly know where I am going to retire in a few years.....

FWIW,

 

[2929]

As a reservist who works in Vancouver, more specifically Kitsilano, I have had more then enough unfortunate experiences with ignorant and hatefull civvies. I have also a many forgettable experiences with ignorant and hatefull civvies in Victoria, Richmond, Whistler, riding the ferry between Vancouver and Victoria, and even a some outside of BC in Brandon and Winnipeg (while not in uniform oddly enough). Most of my bad experiences have usually involved hatefull or ignorant comments, dirty looks, insults, and mocking.

On the other hand I have had very pleasent experiences in the rest of BC and select places in Vancouver (mostly the restaurants and pubs where we frequent). While eating lunch in Watcom recently a middle aged gentleman actually said to me "Thank you for serving!" It was the first time in my military career anyone has actually thanked me for serving Her Majesty, Queen Elizabeth II Queen of Canada. In Maple Ridge while getting gas on my way home from work a young man offered to pay for my gas. Recently, in Tilco Lake on Ex Trident Fury, the locals were incredibly nice, they even lent us their canoe for the week. While on Ex Cougar Salvo in Kamloops this past March the locals were again very friendly, I had the pleasure of talking with a curious gentleman and his mentally handicapped son. They were both very happy and thankfull to speak with me and learn about the military; his son was incredibly excited when he got to take some pictures with me in front of an HL. I have had many other pleasent experiences with civvies in BC.

In my experience, I find that in general, the people in BC are very curious and friendly towards the military. The many bad experiences I have had with civvies were all located within a select few areas; areas that I happen to work in the most.

 

[pbi]

Well, well, light a match and walk away, and look what happens! Sorry about that.... I thought my little innuendo would be understood immediately for the broad stereotype that it was.

While Centurian (as is the professional wont of his trade) is quick to warn us against thoughtless generalization (thereby depriving me of 50% of the things I post here..), I didn't speak without experience. I served in 3PP at Work Point Barracks, Esquimalt, 1983-86, and in 1PP Calgary 1989-1997. As MarkC (whom I stomped the rainforests of the Island with at least once...) and others have commented, the Island was not a particularly pro-military place. In fact, I think that (short of York U) it represented the largest collection of anti-military crackpots in Canada. (I wish I had invested in a VW bus repair shop...)Alberta, on the other hand, was with very few and rare exceptions a welcoming place. Calgary was offering a warm reception to returning units before it became the fairly widesprad practice that it is today.

Cheers

 

[medicineman]

I was asking pbi, but since you replied...

In an open forum...

Well, we, as Canadians, do in fact have a right to disagree with eachother, so I guess we will.  I lived on the Island, went to high school and some university in Victoria, and played soldier on the Island, lower mainland and in the interior before moving on to the Regular Force.  I have to say (yes, it may sound like a generalization to some) that at best, a fair portion of the populace treated military personnel like they were the proverbial four headed alien - sounds like you lucked out and missed meeting all of these happy folk.  Not to say everyone was like that - due to the weird population pyramid in the Greater Victoria area (more like an hour glass), there were alot of older people that were invariably veterans; on the other hand, the bottom of the pyramid (hour glass) made up for it.  Or maybe it's the wacko magnet on my forehead...

The episode I alluded to with our T-Flashes was in fact an authorized CF exercise with a must expend order in an area we were authorized to do so in.  Enough said about that - other than the fact the connaisseur of granola concerned very rudely refused our assistance to either help him across the creek concerned and then our attempts to at least tell him the safe route across so he could talk at our OC - he ended up having a cold swim as a result.  BTW, this comes from someone who was in fact studying granola munching - I'm not going to start on some of my classmates or profs though.

I remember having a meal with my ex-wife's grandparents one day near Hope, when her grandfather announced to the people in the restaurant that I'd just returned from Croatia doing my bit there - with the look the waitress gave, I'm surprised the bill wasn't doubled or tripled.  I think you may be getting a picture of why some of us feel a little perturbed about some our fellow citizens, especially since it's a part of the country I really miss. 

There was a bright side for a bit in Vcitoria, (as my kids live there, I visit as often as I can) they had a (shortlived) program to support the military with certain merchants giving discounts of up to 15% for whatever services or items they were selling.  Alas, it didn't seem to last long though, maybe a year or two - guess either it didn't catch on or just wasn't popular amongst the Chamber of Commerce.  I can only speculate.


MM

 

[Recon_Guardsman]

Is York U that bad? Ill be there next year...

 

[Trooper Hale]

I heard a story about a WO2 just after Vietnam War. Some infantry blokes were marching through the city (Melbourne) on ANZAC day and a bunch of highly intelligent, respectable and obviously highly educated individuals started to throwing crap and screaming abuse. The men just kept marching, ANZAC day being our day of days they decided to ignore the ignorant bastards and not let them wreck the day.
The crowd started to push & shove and generally get pretty aggressive in their harrasment, I suppose the "Fascist Babykillers" werent acting as they should of been and ignoring the protesters just made them more angry.
Suddenly some bloke got past the cops and charged this WO. Without breaking step and with absolute drill precision, Sir's SLR flicked up in the classic buttstroke, caught the bloke under the chin and completely put him out cold. As i said, he hadnt even broken step and the boys just marched past this prone body sprawled on the side of the road. I reckons its a great example of how to handle protesters, I mean you'll get charged nowadays and kicked out, but its the thought that counts! And when i grow up and are perhaps one day issued with my own Warrant Officer moustache, I want to smash out protesters with an SLR too! Ok, maybe not, but i just thought i should throw in a story about physical aggression rather then just verbal. It might not actually be true but its still a good story

 

[Bobbyoreo]

I like it..lol..love that story....but on the other hand..its just not worth it. People well never change their opinions.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Who is to say that a rifle in motion isn't part of a properly executed drill movement? 
"It just so happened that the timing was CRAZY!  How could you plan something like that?!?!"

 

[Centurian1985]

Well, well, light a match and walk away, and look what happens! Sorry about that.... I thought my little innuendo would be understood immediately for the broad stereotype that it was.
While Centurian (as is the professional wont of his trade) is quick to warn us against thoughtless generalization (thereby depriving me of 50% of the things I post here..), I didn't speak without experience. I served in 3PP at Work Point Barracks, Esquimalt, 1983-86, and in 1PP Calgary 1989-1997. As MarkC (whom I stomped the rainforests of the Island with at least once...) and others have commented, the Island was not a particularly pro-military place. In fact, I think that (short of York U) it represented the largest collection of anti-military crackpots in Canada. (I wish I had invested in a VW bus repair shop...)Alberta, on the other hand, was with very few and rare exceptions a welcoming place. Calgary was offering a warm reception to returning units before it became the fairly widesprad practice that it is today.

PBI, to do that job well, you have to look at both sides of the coin... as you said, my whole point was that the entire population is not like that.  Although I must admit Victoria has one of the flakiest populations in Canada.  Too many liberals, witches, environmentalists, and druggies who like that fact that they are unlikely to freeze to death if they pass out in the local woods.

 

[Centurian1985]

The episode I alluded to with our T-Flashes was in fact an authorized CF exercise with a must expend order in an area we were authorized to do so in.  Enough said about that - other than the fact the connaisseur of granola concerned very rudely refused our assistance to either help him across the creek concerned and then our attempts to at least tell him the safe route across so he could talk at our OC - he ended up having a cold swim as a result.  BTW, this comes from someone who was in fact studying granola munching - I'm not going to start on some of my classmates or profs though.

Under the circumstanes my condemnation is misplaced.  Unfortunately knew too many guys who did things like this as a hobby outside of the uniform (i.e. the famous incident outside of a bar in donwtown Victoria, in the 1980's I think; and one guy I recall working with in Victoria liked to get cammed up and illegally hunt deer with a pistol in the northern island area).  Glad to hear you are a law-abiding man of the CADPAT.