• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

I am sick of the (Place Political Party Here)

Cheshire

Jr. Member
Inactive
Reaction score
0
Points
60
"Liberals ask RCMP to probe Cadman allegations"

As the headline read in the Toronto Star.

Stop farting around, dilly dallying around, and do some work. The liberal party is an embarrassment to this country. Dion is an embarrassment to his party, and they are the worst bunch of hypocrite's going. Bribing an MP for a vote? Oh well, what did it cost us? Nothing. What criminal offence has taken place? Who knows, and a small one at that. At least millions  were not flushed down the tube in the sponsorship scandal. Millions wasted on the HRDC fiasco. Milions wasted in penalties from helicopter cancellations.

Now, they want to RCMP to waste more time, and money...investigating.........Blah Blah Blah......

The liberal party needs to go away, and hide itself. And stop harassing a government that is doing some good, for the first time in eons.

Rant over.

Edited to make this thread an equal opportunity employer
 
I think that maybe it's time for a thread like this. Gotta be some rules though. If you refuse to follow these, and any further rules, your post may be deleted by a Mod without warning or explanation.

1) If your gonna slag them, you have to post CREDIBLE sources for your accusations (ie: not Fred's Blogosphere, or some guy's book that hasn't even hit the shelf)
2) You have to go somewhere with it (not 'I hate liberals, CPC, NDP, whatever' because my daddy did)
3) Offer a politically viable solution ('They all blowed up good' is not the solution we're advocating)
4) Posts are not personal, and should not be construed as such (Billy isn't a beanbag cause he hates liberals)


I think this is a thread with potential, but let's stay within bounds. We'll start with these rules and TRY to make this work. I'm sure after a couple of posts new rules MAY be needed. We'll see.

Let's try keep it civil, decorous, factual and honest. Not like the real Parliaments, with real politicians.
 
As a Card Carrying Conservative...I'm liking this thread already!

Tagging to keep in loop.

Too tired to post anything that will not violate said rules :)
 
Any party is fair game. Just don't take it personal (I'll add that to the rules);
and change the title so any party is fair game.
 
Recee...good on ya mate!  I like it.

Here is another Reason why I hate the Liberal party......http://www.liberal.ca/story_13631_e.aspx

Who cares about what Mulroney did 20 years ago. I don't. And for the liberals to pin this on Harper, that he should call a this and that public inquirey, is reflective of how low the Liberal party has to go in order to win points with the population. At what cost Mr. Dion? How much should we spend on an inquest to see who said what about when and where 20 years ago? Gimme a break.

And does Dion really think that he is doing us all a favour by constantly repeating, over and over and over and over again, that Canada does not want another election?  Hardly. I would relish another election, to give the conservatives a majority, and a mandate to grab this country by the brass monkeys, and put the STRONG back into The True, North , Strong and Free.

And remember Mr. Dion...when Hillier goes into the water, he does not get wet, it's the water that gets Hillier!

 
What's next, liberals??????

An inquest into the cancellation of the Arrow?
 
Perhaps the more relevant question is "why" do political parties sink so low?

My take is because the stakes are now so high due to the ever expanding reach and influence of governments (at all levels. Start reading about the goings on in your own municipality). For the Paul Martin government, the stakes were so high they gave a $4 billion dollar ministry to Belinda Stronich for crossing the aisle, and another 4.5 billion in the budget to the NDP party. In return, they got to hold onto the reigns for a bit longer, control hundreds of billions of dollars worth of spending, control vast areas of the economy and maintain their personal perques as well. Not a bad return for 8 billion dollars or so.

I don't see any party or person as being immune to this level of temptation. Conservatism (Classical Liberalism) attempts to solve this through strict boundaries and limitations of government power, and alternative measures such as term limits could also be used to reduce the problem, but clever people always find work arounds. The solution on the Left goes all the way back to Plato's Philosopher Kings, with the idea some sort of managerial/priestly/educational/magical/revolutionary elite will be able to control all resources and power since they are so much "smarter" than you or I. Observations from the French Revolution onwards would seem to contradict this idea, but it persists none the less.

Unless or until human nature changes, we will be stuck with this problem forever and always.

 
I am sick of politicians.......

To paraphrase Robin Williams in Man of the Year "Politicians are like diapers, they should be changed frequently and for the same reason!"
 
I used to work for the House of Commons for a few years. I had been working there for roughly a year and while listening to a discussion on some bill on CPAC, I had to go to the bathroom and vomit, I had become so disgusted with what I had heard, not just that day but every day during question period.  The useless waste of time and taxpayers money... 
 
I used to work for the House of Commons for a few years. I had been working there for roughly a year and while listening to a discussion on some bill on CPAC, I had to go to the bathroom and vomit, I had become so disgusted with what I had heard, not just that day but every day during question period.  The useless waste of time and taxpayers money... 

And they wonder why we don't trust them ???

Some one told me once after I had commented on how someone with no money, just and ordinary person would be a good change on Parliament hill as a leader.

What she said rang very true and it's and age old phrase. "Absolute power corrupts absolutely". She said eventually this ordinary person would become just like the rest of them. You can't change human nature. This person was my mother. And from what I've seen over the years since, she was right.
 
Some people never learn:

http://www.stephentaylor.ca/archives/000970.html

Bob Rae leadership campaign staffers linked to Sponsorship Scandal

Former and likely future Liberal leadership candidate Bob Rae is working this weekend to get himself elected to the House of Commons in the riding of Toronto Centre. Rae is putting himself up as a fresh new ethical face for the Liberal Party, but this will ring hollow with voters Monday as he hired two campaign workers during his failed leadership bid that previously received Adscam money. Gomery described the Sponsorship Scandal as "elaborate kickback scheme" conducted by members of the Liberal party and their associates in Quebec.

When Rae was running to replace Bill Graham/Paul Martin as the new leader of the Liberal Party, he hired two staffers Franco Iacono and Gaetano Manganiello, two former employees of the Liberal Party of Canada.

Here is Rae's expense filing with Elections Canada for these two individuals:

Rae declared that $14,750 was paid to Iacono for "Salaries and Wages" while $3,000 was claimed for Manganiello in "Salaries and Wages" while $1766.26 was paid for "Miscellaneous expenses".

What services did these two men provide for Bob Rae's leadership campaign?

This is an important question because both Iacono and Manganiello testified before the Gomery Inquiry into the Sponsorship Scandal.

Iacono testified on May 4th, 2005 and Manganiello on May 25th, 2005.

From Iacono's testimony before the Gomery Commission, we learn that from 1996-1997, Iacono worked for Alphonso Gagliano as a special assistant (including when Gagliano was at Public Works until September 1997. We then learn that Iacono worked for John Manley, the federal Business Development Bank and for Herb Dhaliwal before attaining employment at the Sussex Strategy Group. Prior to the 2000 election Iacono was hired by then-Liberal Party deputy director Benoit Corbeil to be the party's regional coordinator for the island of Montreal. Iacono explained how he was paid, "I was happy to be hired for the work assigned. Mr. Corbeil simply told me to invoice COMMANDO at the address he had given me in the amount of $8,500." According to Iacono, Corbeil told him to file an invoice for "Consulting services rendered." We also learn that in all Iacono's previous work for the Liberal Party he had never been paid in this way, but he didn't question it because "In my mind, then, it was quite clear and logical, since I had a need and Mr. Corbeil had found a way to satisfy that need. It was that simple." When Gomery said "Now, those three things [an invoice to someone other than the Liberal Party with a false description of services provided, and a payment made outside the election period] suggest to me that you may have participated in a situation that was deliberately falsified," Iacono replied "I have to say no."

What of COMMANDO? In Phase 1 of Gomery's report, the Commissioner writes on p. 263,

    Further contributions to the LPCQ were made by cheque, rather than in cash, but were disguised by using as an intermediary a corporation in Quebec City named Commando Communications, an inactive entity owned and controlled by one Bernard Thiboutot. Mr. Thiboutot worked for Gosselin Communications as the head of its Quebec City office, but in the year 2000, when Groupaction's contributions were made, the assets of Gosselin Communications had already been purchased by Groupaction and Mr. Thiboutot was in effect working for Mr. Brault. He was an active supporter of the LPCQ in the eastern Quebec region.

    On January 6, 2000, and again on November 1, 2000, Commando invoiced Groupaction for $10,000 for services rendered, but according to Mr. Brault, these invoices and the cheques in payment of them are evidence of political contributions that he was asked to make, to pay unexplained expenses of the LPCQ in Quebec City. Mr. Thiboutot does not deny the payments or that they were paid to Commando as political contributions.

    On October 1, 2000, Mr. Thiboutot sent a further false invoice to a Groupaction subsidiary for $50,000, describing the services rendered by Commando as research and analysis. On October 13, 2000, only a short time before the federal election campaign commenced, the invoice was paid, and Mr. Thiboutot acknowledges that the proceeds were used to pay five employees of the LPCQ for their work in the forthcoming election campaign. Each of the workers sent Commando an invoice for the amount received.

And Gaetano Manganiello? Before the Commission, Manganiello testified that he worked in the PMO as a Press Office Assistant until August 2002 and then went to work for Maurizio Bevilacqua. Manganiello went back to PMO in December 2003 where he later took up a job as Media Advance Officer in May 2004. Manganiello goes on to describe that he worked for the municipal campaign of Benoit Corbeil in 1993. Later, in 1997, Corbeil had Manganiello do logistical work for the Liberal Party in Quebec. Manganiello testified that Corbeil then put him on the Pluri Design payroll,

    "I would say late -- early fall -- early fall 1998, Mr. Corbeil walked into my office and informed me that the Liberal Party was in dire straits financially and he wasn't sure if they would able to continue paying my salary. However, he also assured me that -- not to worry, that he would do everything possible to keep me on the payroll and to keep me working at the Liberal Party because my job was required -- was essential for all the administration. ... I would say maybe several days later or a week later, I was informed by Mr. Corbeil that Pluri Design would assume my salary. They would be paying my salary, but I would continue working at the Liberal Party. ... I did not find anything bizarre. I was happy that someone had assumed my salary because I thought I was going to loose my job at the Liberal Party. But, again, he was my superior. So when he approached me and told me that Monsieur Corriveau of Pluri Design would pay my salary, I just assumed everything is okay and I knew Monsieur Corriveau was being someone involved with the Liberal Party. I met him in 1997 in my role in logistics. So I didn't think anything of it."

Manganiello went on to testify that he was paid $32,000 more via Pluri Design for what he described as basically the same duties as before.

On page 300 of his phase 1 report, Judge Gomery writes,

    The combination of Mr. Brault's testimony, which I find to be credible, about payments made by Groupaction to PluriDesign for no consideration other than Mr. Corriveau's political influence, with the admission made by Mr. Corriveau to Mr. Dezainde, leaves me with no alternative but to conclude that Mr. Corriveau was at the heart of an elaborate kickback scheme, according to which at least some of the sums of money paid by Groupaction to PluriDesign, on the strength of false invoices, were used by Mr. Corriveau to the advantage of the LPCQ, by salaries paid to its employees, by services rendered by PluriDesign employees to the LPCQ , or otherwise. The consideration for these payments was the influence of Mr. Corriveau in obtaining sponsorship contracts for Mr. Lemay's companies which were, at Mr. Corriveau's request, managed by Groupaction.

    One of the ways in which Mr. Corriveau used the sums received from Groupaction for the advantage of the LPCQ was in putting LPCQ employees on the PluriDesign payroll. Documentary evidence forced Mr. Corriveau to admit that three full-time LPCQ workers, Gaetano Manganiello, Philippe Zrihen and Jean Brisebois, were remunerated a total of $82,812.27 by PluriDesign in the years 1998 to 2000, inclusively. Messrs. Manganiello and Zrihen were on the PluriDesign payroll starting November 1, 1998, and Mr. Brisebois was added on October 4, 1999. None of these people worked in fact for PluriDesign.

Of course, this raises some important questions for Bob Rae.

Why did he think to hire these Liberal party operatives? Did he know that these men gave testimony before the Gomery inquiry? Iacono and Manganiello went on to work for Bob Rae's leadership campaign.

After going through the drama of the Sponsorship Scandal and having an electorate focused upon ethics, why would Rae's campaign involve these two in his leadership bid?

What should our perception be of a Liberal who hires campaign workers, after testimony given at the Gomery inquiry describing either false invoices or payment made by a third party for political work done?

What does this say about Bob Rae's judgment?

Would Rae say that it's dishonest for a campaign worker to submit an invoice for campaign services to someone other than the campaign with a false description of services provided?

Stephane Dion welcomed Marc Andre Cote back to the Liberal Party. Cote was originally banned from the party for receiving sponsorship funds. Dion flip-flopped on Cote, are we to conclude that the receipt of sponsorship funds does not disqualify one from being a party operative in Stephane Dion's Liberal party? The Cote and Iacono/Manganiello examples just raise further questions.

Is anyone working on Bob Rae's current campaign tainted by the sponsorship scandal?
 
The problem for the Liberals is they never read or understood the story of the Phoenix, it must burst into flames and be consumed before it can be reborn. Right now the party is surviving on life support. I tell people who are Liberals they should let the party die, clean out the dead wood and corruption and start fresh.

The Sh*t kicking the voters gave to the PC started the conservatives down this path and although it took a long time they rebuilt a party that ha a lot of potential, even if it still has some warts. 
 
Colin P said:
The problem for the Liberals is they never read or understood the story of the Phoenix, it must burst into flames and be consumed before it can be reborn. Right now the party is surviving on life support. I tell people who are Liberals they should let the party die, clean out the dead wood and corruption and start fresh.

The Sh*t kicking the voters gave to the PC started the conservatives down this path and although it took a long time they rebuilt a party that ha a lot of potential, even if it still has some warts.   

I agree.

I'm a card carrying Conservative but I regard the Liberal Party of Canada as a once proud and still vital part of our national body politic.

(Parenthetically, I used to vote Liberal but Mike Pearson made a few decisions in the mid '60s that turned me away and I overcame my distaste for and mistrust of old Dief the Chief. When Pierre Trudeau was elected leader/PM I vowed to never again vote Liberal until the stench of that puffed-up, petty, provincial, pseudo-intellectual poltroon was erased from the party.)

The Liberals need to assess their values. The big tent philosophy that served them so well in the '60s, '70s and until about 2005 may not be useful any more. They may actually have to stand for something gain; first they need to figure out what it is.

Canada is, in my opinion, a slightly left-of-centre or, sometimes, maybe even centre-left country - much as we dislike saying so, rather like Australia and Britain. (Despite our media's characterizations, the USA is, at best (worst if you're sgf, I suppose) , a slightly right-of-centre country, not a right wing one.) That probably means that the Liberals should recapture their slightly left-of-centre position - that means, essentially, a centrist position with a strong social conscience.

Centrist, in Canada, means resolutely capitalist (which also means pro-private property, in fact if not in law) and pro-free trade. It means cautiously interventionist in foreign affairs and, equally cautiously, conscious of but not too interested in the Liberals' R2P project. It's a tough place to find one's very own firm principles because it's crowded: Stephen Harper and most of his Conservatives want to be there, too, but they have a bit of elbow room on the right edge. The left-of-centre area is even more crowded for Liberals because a lot of NDP voters (but not the party faithful) are also there.
 
 
I am growing to be sick and tired of all of them, Liberals, NDP and Conservatives. 

In my view we are left with a choice of evils, do we select the overtly socialist NDP, the collectivist Liberals or the statist Conservatives?

Lord Acton said power corrupts, and this is the root of the problem.  After centuries of handing over more and more control to more surreptitious and subtle government institutions we have, as rational individuals, created our own prison, the wardens of which are those people who we, as Don Henley put it “elected King”.

As an example of the state sponsored hand holding I offer up Ontario’s regulation on how hot water can be in your own home. In Ontario we have built into our building code a requirement that water coming out of the taps not be above 49°C.  To this end all hot water tanks in new construction and retrofits must, by code be fitted with a mixing valve or limited to that temperature.  This regulation (costing the typical home owner $125.00 for the valve) is a response to a yearly incidence of 150 people scalded by hot water.  To put that in perspective with a population of over 10,000,000 that number of incidents represents 0.000015% of the population.  But today, in Ontario we all pay.

Successive governments have lined their electoral beds with our money, stolen from us in taxes and given to immensely profitable corporations like Bombardier.

The government can’t be bothered to explain in simple and concise terms the reasoning for our nation’s rational and self-serving presence in Afghanistan but will ignore personal freedom of choice to spend millions on advertising to tell you that not smoking in your own home and automobile is the right thing to do. 

Our elected political whores spend more time in the public eye promoting themselves or their party than they do promoting the country.

Substance, principal, policy and reason are no cause to go to the polls but an increase in seat counts will topple a government faster than you can say political partisanship.

I hate to sound like a wing-nut ideologue but there are times when I think we should raze the entire structure of our democracy to the ground and call a national do-over.
 
Whatever social ill that makes society so extreme and partisan is what bugs me.

This appears to be present on both sides of our great southern border.
While the philosophies of each of the party players are not that different, we have unnecessary rancour and strife over the details of who does what.  Seems goofy to me.

Reinvent the party system (or at least the liberals) and I think the whole thing would work fine.  ;D
 
I don't think any main stream political party in Canada should disappear, but I can think of a certain labour union that I wouldn't mind seeing rethinking their approach to life. ;D
 
Flip said:
Whatever social ill that makes society so extreme and partisan is what bugs me.

http://www.jerrypournelle.com/view/view507.html

The problem is that once the scope of government is vast and sweeping, and the power of the office is enormous; once you get to where you must have vast sums to get the office, and you must win because otherwise you are ruined by your borrowing, and possibly up for prosecution for criminalized policy differences -- then you are where the Roman Republic was, and it is worth [size=14pt]everything to win. [/size]
 
*Steps up to podium*

I am sick of the Bloc Quebecois. I see absolutely no reason why there should be a provincial party running in federal elections. There are already three major player parties in the rest of the country, why should a fourth be running in Quebec? I would have no problem with the Bloc running in Provincial elections, but this party, which is essentially a provincial party, has no business running in a federal election.

One of the only things that the Bloc succeeds in doing, is making an already hard to reach majority position seem damn near impossible for any of the three national parties. Should the Bloc be barred from running in the general elections, these ridings would almost certainly become crucial to the other party leaders. The Quebecois voting with the rest of the nation would, in my opinion (not that it's much worth) greatly reduce any feelings of isolation that some may feel Quebec has in regards to the rest Canada. If they don't have their own personal party to keep them isolated away from either the CPC, Liberals, or the NDP, they would become much more involved in the federal level of politics, as they will not have their own guard dog at the gate demanding and persuading(by force/threat) that the other parties bend over backwards to the people of Quebec.

By all means, allow the Bloc to run provincial. But in an election that is to determine who the leaders of Canada will be... leave that to parties whom represent Canada, and not an individual province.

*silently slips away from the podium*

Midget
 
Back
Top