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How good is the side arm?

Expat

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I am a civilian but I am interested in joing CF once I come back to Canada.

Any who I was curious about the standard issue CF side arm. How good is it? (Wouldn't mind geting some info from people that actually used it)


I have shooting expierence and I am ok with a hand gun. (IPSC) I currently own a Para Ord 2003 model of 16.40 ltd, ( I love it). I personaly don't want to throw it into sand or any thing like that but I have fired probably 6000 rounds with it and no major problems. The gun is slightly modified, lighter triger pull, mag release spring, bushings and fiber sights.

 

DG-41

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It files pretty straight, and it really smarts when you get hit with it. :D

In all seriousness, I was on the Area pistol team a few years back, and so shot the Browning Hi-Power in competition quite a bit. It's a tough, reliable, reasonably accurate weapon that put rounds pretty much where I wanted them to go.

It's no Olympic match pistol, but it does the job.

Keep in mind that if you are falling back to your sidearm, things have pretty much gone to hell. It's the weapon of last resort.

DG
 

Expat

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Is the Browning 9mm different from the High power?

When I shot a 9mm loaner I had a hard time trigering 40 pound flipers from falling over. How is the stoping power ?
 

DG-41

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The Browning 9mm is the Hi-Power. Same weapon.

Something to keep in mind: the Browning is a robust weapon able to deal with a faily "hot" load. Military 9mm is specced out to cycle the blowback action on the old Sten, which takes more powder than is typical in a civillian 9mm. I have heard of barrel failures on lightweight 9mms trying to fire military loads.

As far as stopping power goes, no Fig 11 or 12 I ever shot survived. ;)

DG
 

paracowboy

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the side arm is pretty much irrelevent. If you intend to be carrying one as a primary weapon, you'd best focus on becoming an MP.
 

Kal

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Expat said:
When I shot a 9mm loaner I had a hard time trigering 40 pound flipers from falling over. How is the stoping power ?

          I used to be more concerned with the caliber I was firing, than shot placement.   I am now a shot placement guy.   This is much more important with pistol rounds because they suck terminally compared to rifle rounds.   A well placed .38 special is better than a poorly placed .45 ACP, IMHO.   When training now, I'll shoot for 'instant stops'.

 
 
B

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I don't think the side arm is useless. It's applicable to certain types of soldiers and units. Look at the troops fighting in Falluja, close quarters, your primary fails what are you going to do? C-6 gunners still need em, even though they have a # 2 with them. And of course, you know it, SOA's on the Hill, it's very practical for them. And one final thing the browning sucks ass! :salute: :cdn:
 

Strike

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We carry the 9mm on deployments.  We are also issued a C7 though.

Generally, aircrew in the tac hel world will carry both, as well as officers and some NCOs.

I agree with the last post though -- the Browning sucks.  I could throw it with better accuracy.

I know that Sea King crews have carried Sig Sauers in the past.
 

Fishbone Jones

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BITTER PPCLI CPL said:
I And one final thing the browning sucks ass! :salute: :cdn:

Strike said:
I agree with the last post though -- the Browning sucks.   I could throw it with better accuracy.

You guys should rephrase to say "the vast majority of the Brownings in the CF suck". Other than that, the Hi-Power is a very tried and true, accurate weapon. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a tight, accurized Hi-Power. Not the first choice of some of course, but still effective.
 

Ex-Dragoon

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paracowboy said:
the side arm is pretty much irrelevent. If you intend to be carrying one as a primary weapon, you'd best focus on becoming an MP.

Or join the Navy, volunteer to become part of the Naval Landing and Boarding Party where the Sig Sauer P225 is the standard issue sidearm for all members of the team.
 

Acorn

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The problem with the Brownings is that they're tired. Those on pistol teams get tuned weapons, the rest of us have to pick one out of the box-o-Brownings, resulting in pretty iffy scores for basic range practice. I'm long out of practice, but the one time I shot Browning for score I shot near-perfect (62 of a max of 64, IIRC). I was the lucky one that got the good pistol from the box.

Overall the Browning is a very good weapon, but it is dated (the first ones used by CF were in WWII, and current inventory most date from the 1960s). Various Sig Sauer models are in use with some service members, but the "regular" army uses the Browning still.

I also agree with B PPCLI C that a sidearm is a good idea in many (most) cases. I can't say from personal experience, so I'm sure the real soldiers will whack me back in my lane, but those real soldiers I know have a different IA than what I was taught - no more "cock-cant-look" (sorry, dating myself with SMG  drills), now it's draw the sidearm and continue putting rounds in the direction of the enemy. Makes sense to me. 'Course I'm more likely to be in the way when the real shooting starts.

Acorn
 

Fdtrucker

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Shooting the Browning  Hi-Power for accuracy is still the person who is squeeze the trigger. Alot of this is Principles of Markmanship and not the handgun being used. I have have being firing the Browning for at least 16 years and still qual PWT1-3 with a 2 inch group from the 25 m mark. There are alot of pers who are firing pistol for the first time or after many years and complaining about the Browning. I have gone up against personnel firing the Sig and beat their score with the Browning. The weapon is robust and can handle alot of crap. Some pers only touch this pistol in a blue moon, while i constantly shoot my CZ75 9mm at the range. Last year I qual with Browning that came from War Storage because they had WW2 (Chinese, Russian and English lettering) marking on them
 

Good2Golf

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Personally, I like the HP...especially the "new" ones just recentyly pulled out of war stock...I shot one a few weeks ago prepping to got to Kabul and I was very happy with it.  The 'newer' ones are nice and tight, full bluing with barely any visible wear on the slide or the receiver....also no clinking and rattling when the action was forward.  I was pulling 130-140mm groupings at 25m...she's a pretty hard weapon to muck up...I'd take it over a 226 any day...personal preference I suppose.  Although many lads use 226 the HP Mk1 still is used by some "double-tapper" units...there must be a reason for it.  I'd like to try the Browning DA, see how a double-action version of the HP shoots.

Of course a C8 or M4A1 would be like more usefull with rounds inbound, but I wouldn't mind having the HP as my sidearm.

Duey
 

Strike

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I shot one a few weeks ago prepping to got to Kabul

Oh Duey...does that mean that you are only pretending to fly?  Playing with those little toys?

Personally, I am more comfortable shooting a rifle.  Maybe because I had some Boatswain teaching me how to aim when I went for my first pistol shoot.  I had scored 100% the day before with a rifle and this guy was there.  I don't think it's the aiming that I'm having problems with.  Turned me off the damn things.
 

Good2Golf

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Strike said:
Oh Duey...does that mean that you are only pretending to fly?   Playing with those little toys?

Personally, I am more comfortable shooting a rifle.   Maybe because I had some Boatswain teaching me how to aim when I went for my first pistol shoot.   I had scored 100% the day before with a rifle and this guy was there.   I don't think it's the aiming that I'm having problems with.   Turned me off the darn things.

;D

Strike, I'm just making myself happy with the little things in life until someone gets me that big honk-arse helo that the CDS keeps referring to.  I was attempting a "lateral arabesque" to pass neatly over the Griffon and land in the cockpit of "whatever large, very large helo can have M134 7.62mm mini-guns bristling from it, yet still be able to put at least 20,000 lbs on the (3?) hooks".  Problem is, it's taken a bit longer for whatever beast we're getting to show up...so my lateral arabesque is now looking like an ugainly swan dive...oh well, so long as they hurry up and get that Chinook err...helicopter that fully meets the operational requirement.  8)

Cheers,
Duey 
 

KevinB

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The CF PWT system for pistol a joke.  A blind man with his dead dog shooting for him could pass.

Biggest problem with the issue BHP is the mag safety - this thing is a hazard to navigation -- best bet is to pull them out (they dont do jack or shit other than make you put a LOADED mag back intoa  clear gun to fire it anyway) - then the gun is back to a simple signel action system just like the C7/C8.  Decent sights and you've got a good combat gun into the next millenuim.  I consistantly FAIL to understand why the CF has not made it FACT to pull them out -- come on the RCMP ERT guys pull their out of the 5946's - and the BHP works much better (mags fall out when ejected) with it gone.


*Did I mention I shoot a Sig  ;D

Either or - both are solid systems.



 

COBRA-6

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But without the browning what willl the other nations have to make fun of us over?? "That is your pistol?? Do you throw it at the enemy?? Seriously that is not something you issue to a first world army..."
 

Good2Golf

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SAS still uses both the BHP and 226...not sure that 22nd Reqt is "third world"....
 

KevinB

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Every Single Belgian Para had a BHP.  I dont see them as third world... (albiet their Night figthing capability makes then look as such...)
Problem is many of the IN SERVICE guns are worn out / have bad mags etc.

No one is documenting these issues higher - heck the LCMM asked for UCR's or other issues on them two years ago.

One of the 1VP WO's submitted a UCR after Kosovo about the pistol - however no one seem to action complaints...


 

Gunnerlove

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Nothing lasts forever.

Now while I prefer polymer framed auto pistols the BHP is and will remain an effective pistol for years to come. The fact that they are still being made and sold to consumers despite all of the other options on the market shows their continued relevance today.

The problem with our pistols is the same problem we have with everything else in the forces. We totally use up what we have in circulation while brand new items sit in warehouses as "war stock". Then when the highpower is retired due to "reliability issues" we will be destroying used pistols along with brand new ones.

We are spending dollars to save dimes. Always have and always will.

 
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