How Fast should an infantry officer be able to run?

[hoote]

Hey guys.  I am going in for DEO infantry officer and am working very hard on my running.  My goal is to do the 2.4km in 10 min.  But I am wondering how fast should I be able to run the 2.4km and the 5k to gain the respect of the men?  Also how far should I be able to run at one time (10, 15, 20km?)

Thanks so much ;D

 

[OnTrack]

I'm not sure how it works in the Army, but I suspect that how fast you run is not related to gaining the respect of your men.  Use your time smartly and work on all the leadership aspects of Officership...that will serve your subordinates exceedingly well.

 

[davidk]

I'm not an officer, just an NCM, but here's my $0.02...

Running is an important part of the army, but it's not the only way to get your subordinates to respect you. A good officer will earn the respect of his men, not expect it when he leaves them in the dust during PT. Junior NCMs will look up to you if you make good decisions, display good leadership ability, and have good soldiering skills. If you can run your 2.4k in 9:30 but can't lead your men into battle, then who cares how far or how fast you can run? Try out for the Canadian Olympic track team...

 

[Gunnar]

A trained private of my acquaintance in the RCR once said this about officers and running...

"When he came to the unit (from RMC), he could run like a gazelle...it took the RSM and a few of the men to work on slowing him down to RCR speed...."

The idea being that you should be incredibly fit, but need to adjust your leadership style to the men you will be leading...if you arrive at the objective ahead of everyone, like the people with the heavy guns....you aren't going to be much use to anyone.   Also, remember what Sun Tzu says about forced marches...if they're doing forced marches to keep up with you, the same tenet applies.

So, be respectably fit, then as others have suggested....be a respectable leader.

 

[DG-41]

I don't think an actual time is as importance as your performance in front of them - you should never be the weakest link in the chain, and ideally you should be stronger/better thanmost of them.

"Lead by Example" right?

Quick story:

I was the course officer for a Basic course, and I was going to take the recruits out for a rifle run. (As an officer, you will do a lot of leading during PT) However, I neglected to sign out a rifle for myself, and the troop WO didn't notice either, so when it came time to go for the run, I didn't have a weapon of my own - and that's a big no-no; the leader must lead by example.

However, they had been doing C9 training earlier on, and a C9 was availible... so lucky me, I picked up a C9 and used that instead. How to make an impression on the recruits (and your own staff) - do everything that they are doing with a weapon that weighs twice as much.

Now - full disclosure - I was in much better shape in those days; it was mostly adrenaline and the fear of looking weak in front of the men that let me pull this off, and even then, once the cool-down was complete, I slunk off to a private corner to twich & gasp for a little while. It hurt, and I wouldn't do that again. The point here being that "lead by example" counts, not that you have to kill yourself in order to be the hero.

In an infantry unit, there's always going to be specialized PT gods - the little scrawny guy who is an Olymipic-calibre marathon runner, the big ******* who can bench press most Hondas, etc. You are highly unlikely to be able to beat everyone on every aspect of fitness, and I don't think you should try. But you should be in good enough shape that you can do all the expected tasks without noticable exertion, and be able to lead from the front on any sort of group activity.

In terms of a time on the mile and a half... my best time was 8:48, and my average (when I was in good shape) was more like 9:15 and I never had any trouble with PT during this time. That's probably a good target to shoot for.

And like the previous poster said, you don't want to go the other direction and bust their asses trying to keep up with you just so that you can show that you're the PT god. If you can lead, comfortably, at their accustomed pace, then you are meeting the required standard.

DG

 

[Kat Stevens]

Hey guys.   I am going in for DEO infantry officer and am working very hard on my running.   My goal is to do the 2.4km in 10 min.   But I am wondering how fast should I be able to run the 2.4km and the 5k to gain the respect of the men?   Also how far should I be able to run at one time (10, 15, 20km?)

Thanks so much ;D

It's not how far or how fast.  Just don't be the first to run when the fecal matter strikes the rotary oscilator... ;D

 

[Fusaki]

From my post in the Bad VO2 thread:

a young Infantry Platoon Commander has to be at the very top of his platoon when it comes to PT. Morning PT is usually where a Lt or Capt will make his first impression with the troops who will work for him, and the last thing they want to see is the guy who could lead him into combat sucking wind after 3k.

I think DG-41 was a little more eloquent about the point I was trying to make:

I don't think an actual time is as importance as your performance in front of them - you should never be the weakest link in the chain, and ideally you should be stronger/better thanmost of them.

 

[hoote]

Great posts guys!  It's good to know that the men look at many factors when evaluating a leader and not just fitness.  That may sound obvious but I was told by my interviewer (cpt airforce) that he knew an engineering officer who did not get the respect of his men until he ran with them and fortunately for him he was a runner. 

 

[paracowboy]

you should be able to do 10 km in 40 minutes. That was the 3 RCR Para Coy standard. If you can do that with reasonable comfort, you will be able to meet pretty much any standard in the CF. You should also keep in mind that the majority of your troops have been doing this longer than you and have a number of injuries, aches, pains, and other infantry-related mementos.

Just because you can do 10 km in 40 minutes, doesn't mean you have to every time. 

The troops will not respect an Officer who cannot keep up with them, but neither will they respect one who tortures them on PT. Worse, if you run them into the dirt on Exercise, when they're carrying support weapons, extra ammo, and YOUR radio, they will quickly hate you.

Fitness is not the be-all and end-all of gaining the respect of teh troops, as the posters ahead of me have illustrated. There is far more to it. But, Reg Force Infantrymen expect a leader to be fitter than they, so he can lead from the front.

Being a leader means more work, more responsibility, less time, less fun, and more stress. Enjoy.

 

[IPC10]

Would echo all of the above points with respect to fitness and your soldiers.

If you feel that on your own you want to aim for a time for 2.4 km (1.5 miles) - look at 9 minutes 45 sec; that's the minimum standard for the Cooper's Test.

"Your fitness should be to a level where it isn't a question" - forget who told me that...

 

[redleafjumper]

Some great advice posted here so far.   If I may just add to it, don't get too far out in front, but don't be the dead last one either.   There are many other things that are more important than how fast you can run.   Be in good shape and be an officer that runs with the troops, not in competition with them.   The objective is to build a physically fit team and to create a bond.   The objective is not to prove that you might be the fastest, strongest person in the platoon.   As a platoon commander, the platoon is your personal weapon, so take care of it and each of its members, and then it and they will take care of you.

 

[x-grunt]

As a platoon commander, the platoon is your personal weapon, so take care of it and each of its members, and then it will take care of you.

Nicely said. Never heard it put quite like that before.

 

[geo]

just make sure you're as tough and as fast as your troops.

then again, once you've strapped on combat boots, FFO, and personal weapon.... you'll be as handicaped as the rest of the troops.

Over the years, I've had too many junior officers show up on my doorstep, running like a gazelle and trying to run their new platoon into the ground.... never a good start.

 

[Jarnhamar]

If your gods gift to running but the minute you put on a rucksack and start to die your no good to the infantry. At all.

Running is great but it's more important to be able to carry a tacvest, rucksack, helmet and rifle. Sounds easy but it isn't.

 

[Deleted member 6930]

Faster than a bullet .... sorry Guys ... I couldn't resist. ;D

 

[paracowboy]

  As a platoon commander, the platoon is your personal weapon, so take care of it and each of its members, and then it and they will take care of you.

brilliant.

 

[bossi]

... As a platoon commander, the platoon is your personal weapon, so take care of it and each of its members, and then it and they will take care of you.

Just like the commercial for responsible drinking (and not driving when inebriated):
"Arrive alive". 
When you leave somebody behind, it could be tantamount to killing them one day ...

 

[Glorified Ape]

Is the "slowest at the front" tool for pacing the platoon used much on runs (if at all)?

 

[bossi]

Is the "slowest at the front" tool for pacing the platoon used much on runs (if at all)?

It depends on the aim of the exercise (no pun intended ...)

If you're doing physical fitness trg, the gazelles won't necessarily benefit from the pace set by the slowest - thus, you might break into groups:  Slow and Fast, or Slow Medium and Fast (depending on the size of the group).  However, if the aim is to stick together ...

Alternatively, you might have somebody "set the pace" - if it's reasonable, some will struggle to keep up, others will complain it's too slow, and then there's the middle ground ... (hmmm ... why do the Three Bears come to mind ... ?)

There's something else to be said for "slowest at the front", and that's honesty (i.e. the slower ones first have to admit they're the slowest ... which sometimes can be a motivator for them to stop being the slowest ... alternatively, sometimes it becomes necessary to push a straggler to the front ... because they were in denial and tried to pretend they're not the slowest ...

Sum up?  A cop-out answer:  Sometimes yes, sometimes no - it's knowing when that's the key.

 

[Glorified Ape]

It depends on the aim of the exercise (no pun intended ...)

If you're doing physical fitness trg, the gazelles won't necessarily benefit from the pace set by the slowest - thus, you might break into groups:   Slow and Fast, or Slow Medium and Fast (depending on the size of the group).   However, if the aim is to stick together ...

Alternatively, you might have somebody "set the pace" - if it's reasonable, some will struggle to keep up, others will complain it's too slow, and then there's the middle ground ... (hmmm ... why do the Three Bears come to mind ... ?)

There's something else to be said for "slowest at the front", and that's honesty (i.e. the slower ones first have to admit they're the slowest ... which sometimes can be a motivator for them to stop being the slowest ... alternatively, sometimes it becomes necessary to push a straggler to the front ... because they were in denial and tried to pretend they're not the slowest ...

Sum up?   A cop-out answer:   Sometimes yes, sometimes no - it's knowing when that's the key.

Ah ha - thank you. The griping about it being "too slow" seems strange, though I've heard it before. I've found all that it achieves is to annoy the leaders and insult the slower ones. I was never a gazelle but I was nowhere near the slowest either and I kept my mouth shut on the runs. I wonder sometimes if the ones griping may not just be trying to indirectly tell everyone "hey, I can run faster than this" which is usually obvious anyway.