How are Chaplains perceived by other CF members?

[Humphrey]

I'm not sure where to post this exactly, so I'll start here.

I'm wondering about CF chaplains and the perception, experiences, and the different attitudes that CF members might hold about chaplains? 

What positive and helpful contributions do chaplains make in the lives of CF members whether in garrison or on deployment?  What are the not-so-good things about chaplains in your perspective?  I would be interested to hear whatever candid impressions you have about chaplains whether it's good, bad, or indifferent.

Thanks.



(Moderator edit to clarify title.)

 

[PMedMoe]

Is there a particular reason why you want this info?

 

[Roy Harding]

I am not a religious man in any way, shape, or form.  And I'm not shy about it.  Neither do I push my views in anybody's face.

During my career, I invariably found the Chaplains to be great guys, who were genuinely concerned with the troops well-being, and who worked hard to assist individuals with personal problems.  They were kind, compassionate, caring souls - who could rarely be fooled by malingerers - in those cases, I found Chaplains to be "tough love" advocates of the highest order.  I never found one who "pushed" religion on anyone, or who took exception to one's lack of religious faith.  They did run religious services for those who wished to attend, and I'm sure that was a great comfort for those wishing to make religious observances.

In my opinion, these guys (and ladies) are an essential element in any unit - not enough can be said regarding their effectiveness at helping soldiers with personal problems, and at bringing those problems directly to "the top" of the C of C, if necessary.  Much of their work is not seen or appreciated by the majority of the troops - but it is necessary.

 

[PMedMoe]

I agree with Roy's statement, I have never had a problem with the Chaplains in the military.  I think they are essential to the CF in a variety of ways.

 

[vonGarvin]

One thing that many forget is that chaplains, though members of various religious orders, perform duties way above and beyond anything related religious in nature.  They are in the strictist sense a confidante.  They are an advocate for morale, and they can be the "conscience" for the commander, reminding him or her of their duties.

At one time, I believe that Chaplains very deliberately did not wear rank.  The idea was that they were to be considered one day senior to the person they were addressing.  I can see merit in that, in that a brand new private may not be able to see past the captain's bars on the chaplain's uniform.  Conversely, a bully of a CO would not be able to "Captain" the chaplain.  (eg: "shut up captain, I'm the CO!")

As for religious services, as a practicing Roman Catholic, I found that the ability to attend mass pretty well any place, any time, was comforting to me.  The smallest mass in which I participated involved exactly three persons: the priest, me and and one other participant.

So, all this to say that they do what civilian priests, ministers, rabbis, imams, etc do; however, they are much MUCH more than that.  And the troops all appreciate having them around, for a variety of reasons.

 

[Humphrey]

Thank you Roy and Midnight Rambler for your thoughts.  Much appreciated.

PMedMoe, I ask because I'm curious.  I did a search for "chaplain" on the site, and I did a search for "padre" and found nothing.  So that got me wondering about what CF members think about chaplains.

I look forward to hearing more responses.

 

[Roy Harding]

The Search function is currently not working well.

This thread http://forums.milnet.ca/forums/threads/89114.0.html provides the explanation.

 

[dapaterson]

I am not fully familiar with the history, but in WWII chaplains held only honorary rank.  See, for example, HCapt Foote, VC

 

[kratz]

Searching the site through Google found one discusson on the CF role of Padres.

 

[PMedMoe]

PMedMoe, I ask because I'm curious.

I asked because I was curious, too.  No worries, I don't think you have an ulterior motive or hidden agenda.    We do get people on here doing research or writing papers on various things and I like to know what I'm responding to.

 

[Gunnar]

Based on everything I have heard from those who serve, the padres are everything a priest is supposed to be--Good Christians (et al) who attempt to guide their flock, without pressuring them on obscure points of doctrine.  They soldier on.  They are a shoulder to lean on, a hand up, and occasionally a kick in the arse.  Occasionally they can get you a drink.  They do their damn job, often in a way that their civilian counterparts don't seem to match.  They are the quiet, unsung heroes who are *part of their community*, and are familiar with the sins and foibles of mortal men, and help them handle it.  They are not the kind of clergy who run around damning everyone with a holier than thou kind of attitude.

This is my impression, as gleaned second-hand from a padre on the board, and those who have had recourse to one in the past.  I have never served, so I may have a rosier picture than some.

 

[Humphrey]

Thankfully I wrote my last term paper over a decade ago, and I have no great plans to write more in the near future.  Life provides enough deadlines, eh?

Chaplaincy happens in different contexts in civilian culture as well as within the police forces in Canada.  I've certainly had opportunity to speak with chaplains in hospitals, and RCMP Chaplains over the years.  However, it really isn't quite the same as hearing responses from the people the chaplains will work with and care for.

Years ago I spoke with a fellow serving with PPCLI and he suggested that he would prefer it if chaplains spent more time being someone a soldier could feel comfortable "talking to" rather than the guy policing troop language while out in the field.

Chaplains tell me that their training really focuses on "being there" for whoever needs them and the person you care for sets the tone for the chaplain's work.

I read an account of a chaplain serving with troops at a fire base in Vietnam, cut off and surrounded by NVA.  If memory serves correct he spent a great deal of time helping with the wounded, hauling supplies, building up defense works, and one memory stands out: dug in with troops under fire and passing around communion.  If there's a ring of truth to it, I would think this might describe a good chaplain at work?  Fr. Mulcahy also comes to mind as being a pretty true-to-nature character on MASH.  Art imitating life?

 

[xena]

... rather than the guy policing troop language while out in the field....

I can't dispute this guy's experince one iota.  But in my personal experience, I've never seen a Padre police anyones' language.  {Warning:  rabbit trail!}In fact, I've heard Padre's use some "colourful" language themselves (interestingly never anything remotely blasphemous, just a bit closer to the obscene end of things).  Which gets one contemplating the difference between blasphemy and obscenity, and thinking about how obscenity is completely relative.  We've all heard the stories about a recruit going home and accidentally asking his mother to "pass the f****ing butter".  That's because that paticular word is slightly less obscene to the average soldier in a military setting, than it is with nice little old ladies who have doilies on all the tables.

But that's a topic for another thread.  {Rabbit trail over.}

Yeah, I agree that Chaplains are another type of "unsung hero" that is absolutely necessary in the Forces, but there are lots of people who have no idea what they do.  Another example of the "quiet professional" perhaps.  There always there for you, and never have any sort of condemning attitude.  They're pretty cool that way.

 

[dapaterson]

I know of one Infantryman who was accepted into the University Training Plan for NCMs as an Infantry officer (civvy U), and after his second year called the career manager to inform him that he was changing his major to divinity, and was going to get ordained.  A remuster from Infantry to Chaplain followed in short order...

 

[Roy Harding]

I can't dispute this guy's experince one iota.  But in my personal experience, I've never seen a Padre police anyones' language. ...

I LEARNED some great curses from Chaplains! 

One of my favourite Padre stories involves being on exercise in the mid-eighties.  At that time, exercises were lengthy affairs, with complete tent cities being set up, including messes, kitchen, etcetera.  In the unit I was with at the time, it was "traditional" to have some hard-core porn playing on the TV in the Junior Ranks mess - pretty much 24/7.  On one exercise, the canteen queen forgot to bring the porn.  A few of us were sitting around moping about it, when in comes the Padre. 

"Is there anything you guys need?" says our resident Sky Pilot.

"We don't have any f**kin' porn, Padre" replies one of the long-faced ones.

That very evening, the Padre delivered a freakin' BOX full of it - pretty disgusting stuff, too (even by our standards).  We never asked where he got it, he never said.  His only stipulation was that we turn the sound down on the TV set when he came into the Mess.

That guy was excellent at liar's dice, too - took home more than one unsuspecting soldier's FOA.

THAT's a Padre.  And in my experience, that's a fairly normal portrait of one (perhaps with the exception of the express porn delivery - that was unusual).

 

[Neolithium]

I have a feeling handing out porn is a relatively rare thing but it does seem to convey something that each Chaplain takes very seriously: The morale of the Canadian Forces members that they serve with.  I have a feeling that their job is probably far tougher than one would expect out of any "regular" member of the clergy, considering the amount of stress, and issues (both personal, professional, moral) that they have to help put an individual at ease with.

 

[gcclarke]

I have a feeling handing out porn is a relatively rare thing but it does seem to convey something that each Chaplain takes very seriously: The morale of the Canadian Forces members that they serve with.  I have a feeling that their job is probably far tougher than one would expect out of any "regular" member of the clergy, considering the amount of stress, and issues (both personal, professional, moral) that they have to help put an individual at ease with.

I have a feeling that padres handing out porn is a relatively rare thing because it's relatively rare for people to forget to bring their own.

 

[Fatalize]

I find it interesting that the CF still supports bronze age mythology superstitions. Why not just have general counselors for people?

 

[Yrys]

I find it interesting that the CF still supports bronze age mythology superstitions. Why not just have general counselors for people?

If you remember that the C in CF is for Canadian, and you go look here,
you'll find your answer.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I find it interesting that the CF still supports bronze age mythology superstitions. Why not just have general counselors for people?

Bill Maher fan, huh?