homosexual members during deployment/field ex

[dogger1936]

Evening forum. I'm actually taking this to the forum because no one seems to be able to give me an answer at my unit. Being 2010 and having a more accepting military I have two openly married homosexual men in my organisation. While it may be smething someone else has dealt with in their careers; I have not.

In no way am I discrimatory towards them but a few questions comes up in my mind and I would like to hear if there is any direction on this.

-Homosexuals in sleeping quarters. We regularly have seperate sleeping quarters for male and female soldiers while in barracks on courses etc. Is there any direction as to what to do with homosexual members?

-Homosexuals field shower units and while on courses.


Honestly this is the first time I've had gay subordinates.


As a superior what do you suggest I do in the above situations.

 

[cavalryman]

Very, very simple.

You treat everyone under your command as soldiers.  Period.  No further need for explanation required.

 

[OldSolduer]

My advice is if they are married to each other, get one out to another sqn. A traditional married service couple wouldn't be allowed to serve in the same sqn/coy....at least I don't think they should.

 

[dogger1936]

My advice is if they are married to each other, get one out to another sqn. A traditional married service couple wouldn't be allowed to serve in the same sqn/coy....at least I don't think they should.

no sorry the two members are married...but to two differnt men. Sorry for the confusion!

 

[cavalryman]

no sorry the two members are married...but to two differnt men. Sorry for the confusion!

And what business is it of yours?  Do you worry about troops married to members of the opposite sex?  Likely no.  Treat all your troops like soldiers and stop worrying about things that are none of your business.

Take this from an old, old soldier who has been through introducing women in the combat arms (treat them like soldiers), and eliminating the barriers for homosexual service members (treat them like soldiers).  In the end, we all bleed the same colour.

 

[Jarnhamar]

And what business is it of yours?  Do you worry about troops married to members of the opposite sex?  Likely no.  Treat all your troops like soldiers and stop worrying about things that are none of your business.

Take this from an old, old soldier who has been through introducing women in the combat arms (treat them like soldiers), and eliminating the barriers for homosexual service members (treat them like soldiers).  In the end, we all bleed the same colour.

"Everyone is the same"
So you think women and men should share showers?

I think it's a great question.

How soldiers interact with each other and addressing possible problems before they arise by being aware of the situation is a key leadership point.  If everyone in the platoon is going to give these two guys a hard time because of their sexual orientation looking the other way and acting like it's none of your business is wrong.

We all bleed the same colour but there are some huge differences in between.

 

[dogger1936]

What are you babbling about?

I asked two questions above and provided clarification for the other poster who thought the two members were married to EACH OTHER.

I should have known better to ask a serious question regarding this topic on a online forum.

 

[Michael OLeary]

Is there any direction as to what to do with homosexual members?

No, because they already fall into one of these two categories:

male and female soldiers

 

[dogger1936]

"Everyone is the same"
So you think women and men should share showers?

I think it's a great question.

How soldiers interact with each other and addressing possible problems before they arise by being aware of the situation is a key leadership point.  If everyone in the platoon is going to give these two guys a hard time because of their sexual orientation looking the other way and acting like it's none of your business is wrong.

We all bleed the same colour but there are some huge differences in between.

Precisely my point. There is no way I would put females and males in the same shower/ barracks etc. As a leader in 2010 I'm looking for answers for a issue I was never taught about.

I am not looking to start a debate about peoples feeling on homosexuals etc etc. I have a few question that I cannot find correct proper answers to. Can someone please help without resulting in spouting their opinions or hate/homophobic ideas. Can some people please discuss and hopefully provide answers to the questions I have.

 

[GAP]

I think I'm saying much of what everybody else is saying. The onus is not on you to treat them differently, that's going to create false issues.

They are soldiers, they have proven themselves as such, and are doing their jobs. If they are not being harassed; are not creating uncomfortable, confrontational situations; it's not broke.....don't fix it.

 

[cavalryman]

Micheal O'Leary has nailed it even more succinctly than I.

I have had women under my command in a combat arms unit and homosexuals of both genders - in the field and in garrison.  Like I said, treat folks like soldiers and use common sense (Grimaldus - try it sometime).  If you are worried that you need to segregate troops based on sexual orientation, you need to evolve into the 21st century.

Again - Michael O'Leary has nailed it.

Edit: By the way, now that my old neurons are working, the first time I met a troop of armd recce troops after transferring from the regular infantry, I noticed a number of women in the ranks, wearing the black beret and just as qualified to drive a Lynx or serve as GIB - my first encounter of this kind in the cbt arms. I asked my reg force  trp WO what the heck I should do and his answer was simple: treat them like soldiers.  They tented with the guys, lived with the guys and trained with the guys.  This was almost 20 years ago....  Now why the heck would anyone worry about sexual orientation in this day and age?

 

[PuckChaser]

I've had female members of my detachment and in my section stay in the same tent in the field. We cordoned off one section of mod at the end for them to be able to change without everyone leaving. They had no issues, and were even offered alternate quarters. They both preferred to stay with their peers, and only required a little common sense to protect modesty.

I would say that if you feel the need to segregate homosexual members, you are not too comfortable with them around period. As long as they aren't making harassing comments or actions towards other members in their accommodations, there should not be an issue at all. If they were to do that, a good leader would pull them aside and either caution them, or start administrative action. You can't automatically assume that just because they're gay, they will leer at you and make comments. Maybe you're not that hot and they don't find you attractive. 

 

[Good2Golf]

The idea of male and female showers/ablutions/etc... has more to do with accepted social conventions than it does with the sexual orientation of those who make use of the facilities, i.e. males in male washrooms/showers, whether gay or no, and females in female washrooms, lesbian or not. 

As others have noted, treat them like who they are, soldiers.  If they are acting acceptably, as one would also expect a heterosexual soldier to act properly, there seems not to be a problem.  I say this having had both gay and lesbian service members in my past sub-unit commands.  They all acted maturely and in accordance with all policies and regulations, as did the heterosexual members. 

If the members were behaving inappropriately (leering, suggestive comments, etc...) I see that as being no different than a heterosexual member harassing a member of the opposite gender.  There are policies and regulation that dictate how such situations are to be addressed.  If you are uncertain, see your Unit HCA rep.


Regards
G2G

 

[dogger1936]

The idea of male and female showers/ablutions/etc... has more to do with accepted social conventions than it does with the sexual orientation of those who make use of the facilities, i.e. males in male washrooms/showers, whether gay or no, and females in female washrooms, lesbian or not. 

As others have noted, treat them like who they are, soldiers.  If they are acting acceptably, as one would also expect a heterosexual soldier to act properly, there seems not to be a problem.  I say this having had both gay and lesbian service members in my past sub-unit commands.  They all acted maturely and in accordance with all policies and regulations, as did the heterosexual members. 

If the members were behaving inappropriately (leering, suggestive comments, etc...) I see that as being no different than a heterosexual member harassing a member of the opposite gender.  There are policies and regulation that dictate how such situations are to be addressed.  If you are uncertain, see your Unit HCA rep.


Regards
G2G

Roger. No one is being treated unfairly/ harrassed. Just I had no idea what as you said were the "acceptable social conventions IRT showering bunking etc. I could really care less their sexual orientation is,I was basically trying to have answers incase something DID become a problem.

cheers

 

[Jarnhamar]

Calvaryman,
Treat everyone like soldiers yet hold some to different standards. Gotcha.

The guy was just asking a question, he's obviously not as enlightened as you calvaryman but I give him credit for having the integrity to come on here and say "I don't know".  How many leaders don't have the answers to questions but not only hide it but make no attempt to FIND the answers?

Women and men don't share the same showers. Asking if the same standard applies to homosexuals is an honest question and doesn't mean someone is a barbarian with no place in the 21st century.

Questions like that DO arise. On tour we had a guy and girl dating, they weren't allowed in the same room alone. Male and female, that's fair.
In the company there were two gay men dating yet the issue was ignored and they could hang out behind closed doors as much as they wanted.
Common sense  :

Dogger, with regard to the shower question I think even if male members of your org were put off by showering with gay men the over all direction would be to "get over it"  I understand the perspective how some would want segregation between gay males and non-gay males the same way women and men are separated but I don't see it happening. (Nor do I personally feel it's an issue)

 

[cavalryman]

Roger. No one is being treated unfairly/ harrassed. Just I had no idea what as you said were the "acceptable social conventions IRT showering bunking etc. I could really care less their sexual orientation is,I was basically trying to have answers incase something DID become a problem.

cheers

You go it.  Inappropriate behaviour is inappropriate behaviour - gender or orientation immaterial. The regs are in place to guide you WRT to dealing wth it.  Your chain of command should be able to help if you're in a quandary.  Good luck and have fun.  Dealing with human behaviour can be challenging but having dealt with issues both in the civilian and the military world, I can only say that dealing with the military world is a lot more satisfying - you have a lot more guidance and support  and you can see results - our troops are a whole lot more motivated to be the best.  I'll leave it at that

Cheers

 

[cavalryman]

Dogger, with regard to the shower question I think even if male members of your org were put off by showering with gay men the over all direction would be to "get over it"  I understand the perspective how some would want segregation between gay males and non-gay males the same way women and men are separated but I don't see it happening. (Nor do I personally feel it's an issue)

We may differ on the tone, but agree on the outcome. 

Cheers

 

[Oh No a Canadian]

Questions like that DO arise. On tour we had a guy and girl dating, they weren't allowed in the same room alone. Male and female, that's fair.
In the company there were two gay men dating yet the issue was ignored and they could hang out behind closed doors as much as they wanted.
Common sense  :

The OP said that the men were not dating, nor in a position to be any time soon.  Also, in your example the problem was because they were dating, not because they are gay.

 

[Jarnhamar]

We may differ on the tone, but agree on the outcome. 

Cheers

Don't get me wrong, I'm a stanch defender of homosexuals in the military. If someone is willing to step up to the plate and defend Canada against her enemies I'll stand beside them regardless of pretty much anything. I really don't care either way.
(I may have too the the tone of your post incorrectly sorry.)  Treating everyone like red blooded soldiers and nothing less, nothing more is a great DS answer but in practice it takes work and a little patience to overcome bias and I was just trying to say that I think it's important we take a more educational approach than a 'what are you a caveman?' because that just causes people to get defensive.

he OP said that the men were not dating, nor in a position to be any time soon.  Also, in your example the problem was because they were dating, not because they are gay.

Yes in my example the problem was they were dating but the point being they are held to a different standard because of being gay and not held to the same standard as male/females.

 

[Swingline1984]

Who cares...mind your own damn business and get over yourselves.  Me and 12 other dudes once slept in the same tent as a female soldier...alert the media!  What?  That doesn't stir up much conversation?  Can a Mod lock this ridiculous display?