Homeless in Fort York Armouries

[Pte. Bloggins]

I‘m not sure if everyone has heard about this, but Fort York Armouries in Toronto has been used as a homeless shelter since mid-January. Any opinions?


Shelter gets 1 week more
Military lets city use armoury

But substitute must be found


KERRY GILLESPIE AND PHILIP MASCOLL
STAFF REPORTERS

The military has made a temporary 11th-hour retreat from the plan to end use of the Fort York Armoury as an emergency shelter for Toronto‘s homeless.

But the extension is for only one week and by next Thursday a new location will have to be found, Cathy Crowe of the Toronto Disaster Relief Committee said last night after Mayor David Miller negotiated an extra seven days with the Department of National Defence.

The idea is to give the city and federal government a week to find an alternative, Miller said.

After he spoke last night with Defence Minister David Pratt, Miller told the media, "We‘ve agreed to continue discussions to try and find an alternative for the temporary beds, and at the moment the armoury will stay open for a further week to allow those discussions to occur."

The military had planned to stop sheltering the homeless in the armoury, on Fleet St. near Exhibition Place, today.

Since the armoury‘s doors were opened to the homeless three weeks ago, Crowe said, 100 to 120 people have been sleeping there each night.

"I am pretty disappointed," she said. "I am sick of having to fight this one issue. We have expended lots of time and energy, and the homeless are people who are super anxious about what they will do."

She hopes a closed school or other unused building downtown can be found to substitute.

"But the city has to be willing ... we need the political will."

Still, Crowe held out hope for a reprieve. "The city is closer than they were three weeks ago."

Use of the armoury is becoming an annual battle. The military maintains it needs the space; the armoury is used for training and exercises by at least 500 reservists each week.

But every winter there is pressure from activists to open the doors to people who would otherwise be sleeping in crowded shelters or on the streets.

"The federal government seemed to be optimistic that there is a reasonable solution that meets their needs to have training facilities for the reserves while meeting our needs to have temporary shelter beds," Miller said.

He said he understands why the armoury is popular.

"It‘s safe, it‘s clean, it‘s well organized and you know it‘s out of the cold. So it‘s been a very important addition at a really cold time of the year to our shelter system," Miller said.

City and federal staff plan to meet today to discuss the issue.

 

[Tpr.Orange]

IT SUCKS! Ive been training at fort york, and i had to stay at HMCS york instead for the rest of my training weekends...now ive been extended another weekend at HMCS York...The homeless do need a place to stay granted... but this is a pretty bad alternative...


On top of that, the smell inside of fort york is so nauseating that i cant step in it for more then 5 minutes.

 

[Vigilant]

I am training in the same Platoon as Tpr. Orange and I completely agree. Why the heck don‘t they stick the homeless at HMCS York instead of FYA? We were unable to do any weapons drill due to this issue.

Stick the homeless elsewhere, there should be places found for them elsewhere. The Federal Government sholud come up with so money to build them housing so DND with its stretched buget doesn‘t have to deal with this crud.

All we need now is those "Homes not Bombs" idiots to show up and our misery would be complete.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

A society will be judged on the quality of mercy it gives to its most destitute and desperate citizens. As soldiers you‘d better get a grip on yourselves. You joined the army to protect and provide aid to those who can‘t do so for themselves. Shame on all of you.

 

[girlfiredup]

Padraig, I agree with you to a certain degree. The homeless also need to help themselves and what I mean by that is do whatever it takes to better their situation instead of always expecting a handout from society. Society owes us nothing people! Nothing! We are ultimately responsible for our situation. Where you are at today is the result of your own decision making. Life doesn‘t just happen, you make it happen. I don‘t think its the resposibility of the soldiers to provide for the needs of the homeless. Its not going to change their situation unless the homeless take responsibility for themselves.

Here‘s a motto: If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man how to fish, you feed him for life.

Having said that, the armory should put the homless to work. Have them shovel snow or lay down salt or something. The bible says if you don‘t work, you don‘t eat and they should not be allowed to just sit around and do nothing.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

GirlFiredUp,

Nothing that you said was wrong. I agree with you that they should help themselves. What I have today and what my family has today is because I worked for it.

However, we (the military), serve the government and it‘s people. That means Mom, Dad, Betty-Sue and the stinky man asking for a hand-up. There are people who feel we (society) owe them everything from food to wages to shelter. This is true. But mostly these other folks just need a bit of help. God help those people who don‘t feel for them. Most of us are only one paycheck or two from a life on the streets/shelters.

Nice quote however. Put it up above the front entrance to the Armouries in Fort York.

Slainte, (even to you heartless SOB‘s lol)

 

[girlfiredup]

I agree but if you keep feeding someone (I‘m not referring to food only), they will never learn to feed themselves. Many people go through life living living on barely-get-along street constantly digging themselves out of a ditch. Are we to keep feeding them? There‘s nothing wrong with assistance, don‘t get me wrong. I think discipline is the key and leading by example and discipline is still mercy.

 

[winchable]

So the armoury smells, and the homeless people take up space....But at least they‘re not frozen dead in a bus shelter.

Maybe I‘m a bit of a softy on the homeless issue, I have been working with them for 6 years now, soup kitchens, issuing blankets clothing and finding suitable shelter for them. I can sayt that most homeless people are not looking for a Hand-OUT they are looking for a hand-UP, a helping hand. In many cases (a majority) the homeless are not homeless because of the decisions they made, but becasue of the situation they were born in to. You can only be responsible for your situation to a certain degree.

The inconvenience of not being able to maximise the use of the armouries is small in comparison to the inconvenience a frozen homeless person faces; IE Death by starvation or hypothermia. You‘re absolutely right, the government DOES need to work on an alternative, but until then I‘m sure you can stick it out.

Social assistance and the arguments of laziness aside, the armouries are a government building and the government has the responsibility to even the least able and least well-off members of society.

That being said, these people at the armouries should definetly be doing all they can within their abilities to minimise their interference in the training of the reserves. They should be working, as girl-fired-up said, around and inside the armouries. As much as they are able, and I think you‘ll find for the most part that they will be willing to work. If not, then you have a valid complaint.

If the smell bothers you, there are things you can do: Offer the people soap, deodorant,(are there showers are your armouries?) showers, old clothes etc. etc.

I suppose I am speaking from the outside, also sorry about the length.

Regards.

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

I‘m not going to say much on the issue- I‘m sure some of the people staying at the armouries are truly needy and would be sleeping out in the cold.

But you can hear CELL PHONES going off from the sleeping homeless...dang if you can afford a cell phone...plus it wouldn‘t be so bad if they wouldn‘t harass the military personnel. There is tape around dividing the ‘homeless‘ side of the parade aquare and ‘our‘ side, but they still go over it sometimes and yell stuff at us. Couple weeks back, some troops from another unit were leaving the armoury and went by the door where the homeless smoke (on the way to their cars) and they (the homeless) fully start swearing and yelling at them. And we don‘t know if these guys are drunk or high or whatever.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[winchable]

Aah see no one mentioned that before.
See, this must be the difference between the homeless in toronto and the homeless in Halifax.

They‘re not homeless if they have cars and cell phones.
They‘re probably just sick of mom and dads rules so they ran away from their cushy Richmond hill 2 story.
These are the people that take advantage of nice people like me it drives me nuts, but I just normally tell myself, if one person is genuinely helped then it is worth it.

yeah yeah...I‘m soft

 

[Pte. Bloggins]

No I meant the troops were going to their cars...

Oh well everything else is true.

 

[Padraig OCinnead]

There are definitly slackers and non-hackers (the kind of people I have the least time for) in the midst of these "homeless" people I am sure. For everytime few times we give out a helping hand to someone who deserves it there‘s probably someone screwing the system. That being said I won‘t paint all of them with the same brush. Perhaps representatives from both sides could discuss what has been mentioned on this forum and agree to a common understanding. I‘ve been to these armouries this past summer while on a bike trip with the army, and it‘s a very nice one so I hope they are not fouling it up.

 

[Danny]

Originally posted by Pte. Bloggins:
[qb]

But you can hear CELL PHONES going off from the sleeping homeless...dang if you can afford a cell phone...plus it wouldn‘t be so bad if they wouldn‘t harass the military personnel.

Just my 2 cents. [/qb]

Ok that changes everything. I dont feel sorry for these people at all.

I was in halifax a few years ago and I saw a group of guys dressed in business suits asking for spare change on springarden road. I guess they didnt want to break their twenty. My girlfriend actually had to restrain me from going over to them and killing them, it was the most disgusting thing I ever saw.

 

[GrahamD]

Here‘s a motto: If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man how to fish, you feed him for life.

What happens when that man is mentaly deficient and cannot remember how to fish 5 minutes after you teach him?

What happens if he is missing an arm and is 50 years old and no one wants to bother teaching him because that would be putting themselves out?

There are any number of valid reasons why people are not able to fend for themselves in our society, and if this was 200 years ago natural selection would solve that problem. This isnt 200 years ago though, and ignoring the issue of poverty and homelessness in our society today is immoral.

Obviously though, real solutions need to be devised to address this problem. Opening up government facilities such as the Fort York Armoury is nothing more than a band-aid fix for a critcal situation.
Personaly I refuse to hand out money to induviduals on the street because it is enablement, pure and simple. If no one handed out any money at the street level, and instead donated to agencies, then those panhandlers would be inclined to seek the structured assistance of angencies like the United Way. They may not like losing their resource for alcohol and drugs, however a few weeks of starving on the street with no money for intoxicants would be all it would take for them to start seeking alternative means to exist.

For anyone who would argue that crime would escalate, I would agree. However after an initial burst of increased robbery style crimes, and the subsequent convictions, you would have those induviduals off the streets and in the system.

Anyway, my personal idea for a solution would be to build government funded communities which would have apartment or townhome style accomodations, entertainment, recreational, educational,and most importantly medical facilities. It would be a secure facility where visitation and access to the outside world would be monitered and assessed on an induvidual basis by medical, correctional, and phychological professionals.
The residents would be given all the aid they needed medically and be given their basic rights as Canadian citizens, ie clothing, food, and shelter.
Those well enough to work would be able to atain jobs working in the facilities within the community. They could additionaly receive training and education to assist them in returning to the outside world. The community could in theory be relatively self sufficient after several years of operation. They could grow much of their own food, and produce their own revenue with the placement of a factory within the community.
Even if you built only one large community somewhere in canada, you could send everyone who meets the criteria for entrance, via bus or van as they do in the correctional department now.

For people who think that its just an idea for a glorified prison, well, it is. It would also cost an immense amount of money to begin with, however all I ever hear on the subject is how much we need a solution, how everyone dislikes seeing homelessness on our streets. Well, any solution is going to cost money, a lot of money.
Most people who are homeless need professional help, be it medical, or phychological, or even simply to be looked after because they have permanently lost their ability to cope with life.
They need to be put into the system, and the system needs to be prepared to foot the bill. Those people who are all about affordable housing for the homeless have it wrong in my opinion. I think that will ultimately only help the very limited few who are actually responsible for themselves and have just had tough breaks in life.
I think that most homeless people need a signifcant level of professional care, not just a house. Having a house isn‘t going address addiction problems, schizophrenia, or liver disease.

The best part of my idea as I see it is that no homeless person would be able to fall through the cracks. Vagrancy is illegal, therefore we would be legally justified in putting them into a community. It would not be an infringment on their rights. Those who show ability to reform and do not require permanent care could be released back into the community prepared to contribute to society.
Those who are too far gone would be off the streets forever.
It would be just like in prison, only it would be a more compassionate environment, after all the real crime is perpetrated by those who continue to make the streets a place where dysfunctinal people can survive. Those people aren‘t really doing the homeless any favours at all.

Sorry to rant on about it, but homelessness really bothers me on many levels, and every "solution" I hear bantered around is no solution at all. Its all a bunch of enablement.

If there‘s one thing I know, its that at a point problems often become to big to end with a simple solution if no one steps up and makes the commitment to solving them. As a country we need to put our money where our mouths are when it comes to homelessness.

 

[nbk]

If the government is allowing their property (Ft. York) to be used by the homeless, they should be allowed to appoint these people jobs.

Not Bay street banker‘s jobs, but more mundane things, janitorial work, shoveling snow (as was suggested), picking up litter, planting trees, painting buildings, etc.

Now I know a million hyperconservatives are going to jump on my back and call me a communist, but I am advocating this with respect only to people who cannot find jobs for whatever reason, not all people. Allow them to have showers, get clean clothes.

Something like what Mr.GrahamD suggested, however I think that would take a lot longer and cost a lot more, and the government would be wise to start small, and then expand towards something like a planned community for these people.

This would also curb the people who wish to become homeless just because they dont like living with their parents or whatever. If they know they will be forced to work, they may re evaluate their lives.

I think the current government does not have the balls to really do anything. They would rather have them be homeless then dare ask them to do some work becasue it may offend them. The government needs to grow a pair and get harder on them. If people dont want to work because they are lazy or they would rather be criminals or whatever, they should be forced to work. Or they go to jail or something.

The prisons also need to be overhauled so that they are not an attractive looking thing for the people. They should be an actual deterrent from crime.

 

[FlightSergeantRose]

or. . . the ones that arnt missing any arms can go get cleaned up and work at wallmart, and the ones that dont have any arms, or their mentally screwed up; their families can take care of them, it‘s more their responsibility, not societys‘. I dont feel sorry for any bums. For 95% of them, it‘s there own daamned fault that they are where they are.

 

[Danny]

Well said BadBird.

 

[koalorka]

Well said Bad Bird. There is no explanation for being a bum in Canada. This country has opportunities for people with a good will and work ethic. 95% of the homeless are most likely dopers, drunks oraz just darn lazy and expecting our gov‘t to support them. Although people with mental oraz physical disabilities should be treated seperatley.

 

[winchable]

"the ones that arnt missing any arms can go get cleaned up and work at wallmart,"

Most would be more then willing to, but who would give a "bum" a chance? Even if they were clean enough to apply to wal-mart(and the logistics behind that are dificult enough); Work experience? none, Education? Very little, References? None. Etc. If a 16 year old applies to walmart with no experience, it‘s understandable. A 35 year old man applying to walmart (or any other entry level job) with no experience is strange, Stranger then companies would want.

"and the ones that dont have any arms, or their mentally screwed up; their families can take care of them,"

Do you think if they had family they would be living on the street? Most do not have the option of a family, or the coping ability to seek help.

"it‘s more their responsibility, not societys‘."

You can only be so responsible for yourself. I‘m sure that you haven‘t gotten to wherever you are today entirely on your own, there had to be something there to help you along the way.

"I dont feel sorry for any bums. For 95% of them, it‘s there own daamned fault that they are where they are."

And the 5% left over?
I‘m sure you wouldn‘t say any of this if you were in that 5%, but you wouldn‘t have the luxury of being able to preach from the mountaintop if you were.


If you want to look at it from a more conservative view point; The social programs and infrastructure funded by the government, would get the homeless off the streets and turn them into productive members of society, increasing GDP and all those nice bottom line things businesses and governments look for.

 

[girlfiredup]

I‘m sure if some of these homeless people really wanted to change their situation they could stand on the side of a highway with a sign that read, broke, hungry and tired of being homeless.. looking for a job! The response would be overwhelming no doubt.