Home Equity Assistance & "Military Families Pushed to Financial Ruin" (Merge)

[TCM621]

What would the lawsuit be based on?  No one has the right to employment for life.  Companies within the bounds of the law following proper notice or severance rules can fire anyone they like.

Now friending on the company it certainly won't make for good publicity but it is their business and they can do what they want.

Termination without cause. Your employer can't force you to spend thousands of dollars out of pocket to keep your job.

All you would have to prove to the judge was that you were unable/unwilling to move and you were fired because if it.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Termination without cause. Your employer can't force you to spend thousands of dollars out of pocket to keep your job.

All you would have to prove to the judge was that you were unable/unwilling to move and you were fired because if it.

Speaking as a long-time Union guy you wouldn't have much of a leg to stand on..............jobs move all the time and, if your job moves and you still want it, then you move.  Mind you I would go in in swinging for a good buyout.

 

[MJP]

Termination without cause. Your employer can't force you to spend thousands of dollars out of pocket to keep your job.

All you would have to prove to the judge was that you were unable/unwilling to move and you were fired because if it.

The laws are not that simple.

Termination without cause is perfectly legal as long as you follow proper notice and/or severance requirements of current legislation and the employee's contract.  Wrongful dismissal is when they breach those requirements, that could apply in this case but generally only to the lack of notice/severance.  Termination of people can happen with or without cause.  A company does not have to continue to employ you if they don't want to.

The term you are looking for is constructive dismissal where a company substantially changes nature of employment and requires the employee to conform to it.  I don't know much about it but asking someone to move without that being in the contract is certainly one of things that could be considered under its umbrella.  So there is a a legal recourse, although if a company was smart they wouldn't terminate someone for not moving but that their position is redundant in that area or something similar.

 

[GAP]

When my company was sold, the new owner was not required to hire me.

If he had not hired me to continue in my position, the previous employer was only required to pay severence, and then only if  he had not given the required number of weeks notice of termination.

Otherwise nada...

It is what it is.

 

[heavy reader]

This just published from Question Period on 30 Sep 2014


Jack Harris St. John's East, NL

"Mr. Speaker, Master Warrant Officer Dodsworth was denied compensation under the home equity assistance program. His family lost $72,000. Neil Dodsworth spent 33 years serving our country, including in Somalia, Afghanistan, and Haiti.

The home equity assistance program is meant to protect Canadian Forces members from financial losses when required to relocate. CAF members should not have to hire lawyers to fight for compensation. Why are our soldiers denied this funding, and why has the government not fixed this problem?"

Dan Albas Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board

"Mr. Speaker, since this matter is before the court, it would be inappropriate to comment on this case."

Jack Harris St. John's East, NL

"Mr. Speaker, this is not the first time this has happened. The government knows about this problem and has not fixed it. It is a pattern under the government.

Canadian Forces members serve our country proudly and should not have to come home to fight bureaucracy, whether it is Canadian Forces members fighting for home equity assistance, disability benefits, or accessing mental health services or veterans and their families fighting for benefits.

Canadian soldiers are not getting what they deserve. When will the government treat Canadian Armed Forces members and veterans with the respect they deserve?"


Rob Nicholson Minister of National Defence

"Mr. Speaker, they get respect and admiration every day from this government. No government has done a better job of sticking up for all these issues, reaching out to assist these individuals and investing in them than this government. I am very proud of our record in that area."

From a personal point of view, no-one from DND has reached out to assist, I have found that the opposite has been the case. 

Oh wait...I did have an olive branch presented...June 5, 2013, again in the Standing Committee on National Defence (Parliament): http://openparliament.ca/committees/national-defence/41-1/84/robert-chisholm-1/

Col Russell Mann

"Mr. Chair, thank you for the opportunity.

I think I can give at least a partial answer, while acknowledging that compensation and benefits is an area of the department that, as the honourable Mr. Alexander has pointed out, is another part of the department, and the director general of compensation and benefits is in a position with the authority and responsibility to develop a home equity assistance program.

Certainly home equity loss affects all families, and my heart goes out to this major and his family, who are clearly suffering. I would like to be able to do more for that family. One of the things I can tell you from my role in Military Family Services is that I hear from families all across the nation through many different means. When I become aware of a particular case, I ask my team to try to find any way at our disposal to deal with the conditions that are caused by military service. As I said, that includes relocation, and one of the consequences sometimes is loss on the sale of a home.

We do have some means available to attempt to provide relief for members if we understand the full context. I would be more than willing to hear the full context to see if we can bring other services to bear within Morale and Welfare Services that are non-governmental but are intended to support families—for example, the military families fund, which is a fund of last resort for military families who are in distress and have nowhere else to turn.

I think there may be a partial way to deal with the member to whom you refer, sir, but I do have to defer and say that the director general of compensation and benefits is in a better position to give you good information about home equity programming and policy."

I attempted to contact Col Mann after this, to ask for his office's assistance as he indicated in parliament, however after several months, nothing heard.  After multiple attemps, I was advised that I knew what was available and I should refer to their website.

As an aside the CFMWS cannot assist with any issues above $5,000 (as it does not "resolve" a problem).

As I had to take my situation through the grievance process (won twice), ombudsmans office (supported), and Federal Court of Canada with nothing but roadblocks in my way, I wonder what component of "reaching out" is being referred to. 

 

[PuckChaser]

Tony Clement should be answering these questions in Parliament. As much as DND may want to provide HEA for its soldiers, its TB that is denying these claims. Putting questions to MND in Question Period is just red herrings, which unfortunately are typical of any NDP question.

As much as I'd like to see us get a champion in the HoC, I have a sneaking suspicion that we're being used for good press for the NDP (who are as anti-military as they come).

 

[heavy reader]

Tony Clement should be answering these questions in Parliament. As much as DND may want to provide HEA for its soldiers, its TB that is denying these claims. Putting questions to MND in Question Period is just red herrings, which unfortunately are typical of any NDP question.

As much as I'd like to see us get a champion in the HoC, I have a sneaking suspicion that we're being used for good press for the NDP (who are as anti-military as they come).

The quote from question period was addressed to Dan Albas Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board. The MND jumped in and answered the question on behalf of the Government (to whom the question was raised).
.

 

[TCM621]

The quote from question period was addressed to Dan Albas Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board. The CDS jumped in and answered the question on behalf of the Government (to whom the question was raised).
.

The CDS or MND?

 

[heavy reader]

MND, my error.

 

[heavy reader]

Here is the video from the House of Commons:

http://politwitter.ca/page/videos/id/41803

 

[heavy reader]

Details of CLASS ACTION- HOME EQUITY ASSISTANCE

http://www.courts.ns.ca/Supreme_Court/documents/Statementofclaim.pdf

 

[Tibbson]

I had my kids out trick or treating the other night and I crossed paths with a real estate agent who lives in my neighborhood.  She knows I'm a military member who is still trying to sell a home so I don't have to be on IR any more and she noted in passing that her office had just sent out some sort of a notice they had received in regards to HEA.  She did mention that she hadn't read it yet but I haven't been able to get in touch with her since then and I'm heading back off leave later today.  Is anyone aware of what she may be speaking of or is this just likely some internal memo within her agency?  I haven't seen any news or earth shattering revelations online yet but I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone else had heard of anything.

 

[heavy reader]

TREASURY BOARD SECRETARIAT NEEDS TO PAY MILITARY FAMILIES THEIR SYSTEMICALLY DENIED RELOCATION ENTITLEMENTS!

Details at http://healoss.wordpress.com/ .Feel free to send the President of the Treasury Board your thoughts directly: tony.clement@parl.gc.ca  Our military families deserve better than waiting 4 1/2 years for wrongly denied entitlements. 

PLEASE SHARE!

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

If I did I think I'd have to create a ghost account!

 

[CountDC]

I do like that they specify in the Class action lawsuit

"the difference between the original purchase price and the sale price"

Saw too often where members that didn't get their asking price would try to claim a loss even though they still recieved more than they paid.  Buying at $200k, listing 2 years later at $350k and settling for $325k does not make a $25k loss.

 

[TCM621]

I do like that they specify in the Class action lawsuit

"the difference between the original purchase price and the sale price"

Saw too often where members that didn't get their asking price would try to claim a loss even though they still recieved more than they paid.  Buying at $200k, listing 2 years later at $350k and settling for $325k does not make a $25k loss.

I briefly read it but was there something about assessed price? If a guy paid 70 grand in 95 and was posted in the local area for 20 years of course he while get more than he paid but he still could have had a substantial chuck of equity wiped out if he posted in the midst of an economic downturn. Or maybe he refinanced based on the newer value and owes substantially more than he paid initially.

 

[Tibbson]

I briefly read it but was there something about assessed price? If a guy paid 70 grand in 95 and was posted in the local area for 20 years of course he while get more than he paid but he still could have had a substantial chuck of equity wiped out if he posted in the midst of an economic downturn. Or maybe he refinanced based on the newer value and owes substantially more than he paid initially.

Yep, that is the situation I'm in.  It annoys me that it's referred to as a home EQUITY assistance program.  I bought my current home for $320,00.  I'm posted and currently on IR because we have not been able to sell.  The home was assessed twice by two independent appraisers and it was valued at $334,000 based on my market and the other homes for sale. 

Essentially I can sell for up to $15,000 under my appraised value, or $319,000, and still take advantage of the HEA provisions without having to apply to the TB for payment HOWEVER they will only make up the difference between that $319,000 sale price and the original $320,000 I paid for it.  I'm essentially losing up to $14,000 in equity.

As it stands how we have lowered the price to our original purchase price but no nibbles.  I can't afford to lose any more so I'm now on IR.  Funny thing is, because the system refuses (is unable...unwilling....) to pay out more under the HEA program I now suck $1800 a month from the coffers to pay my IR expenses. 

Hardly a sound fiscal rationing on their part but nobody ever accused the government of being smart with their money.  As my grandmother would say, "penny wise and pound foolish".

 

[armyvern]

Yep, that is the situation I'm in.  It annoys me that it's referred to as a home EQUITY assistance program.  I bought my current home for $320,00.  I'm posted and currently on IR because we have not been able to sell.  The home was assessed twice by two independent appraisers and it was valued at $334,000 based on my market and the other homes for sale. 

Essentially I can sell for up to $15,000 under my appraised value, or $319,000, and still take advantage of the HEA provisions without having to apply to the TB for payment HOWEVER they will only make up the difference between that $319,000 sale price and the original $320,000 I paid for it.  I'm essentially losing up to $14,000 in equity.

As it stands how we have lowered the price to our original purchase price but no nibbles.  I can't afford to lose any more so I'm now on IR.  Funny thing is, because the system refuses (is unable...unwilling....) to pay out more under the HEA program I now suck $1800 a month from the coffers to pay my IR expenses. 

Hardly a sound fiscal rationing on their part but nobody ever accused the government of being smart with their money.  As my grandmother would say, "penny wise and pound foolish".

I have always said that we will spend 10 bucks to save one; it's ridiculous.

 

[WhereYouTo]

"I'm not saying the CF should buy the homes if we cant sell but why not work it into the contract with Brookfield?"

As time goes on, recognizing that I'm biased, I think that the CF should take my home off my hands if an excessive period of time has past - like say I've gone through all my envelopes.  I don't even want fair market value.  Just near my purchase price.

A person on my street worked for CHMC - they have a guaranteed sales clause - although I heard that is going.  I was pretty jealous 90 days after their house went on the market and CHMC took it off there hands.  I'm in the same boat as some of the others.  Posted this past summer, house still hasn't sold.  We went for the move, so now we have two houses.  Dealing with Brookfield now for TDRA, and they've been mostly good, but I don't like the way the system is setup - I feel like the military should have a keen interest in whether my house has sold or not.  I know I'm a grown-up, but I really didn't feel like I got a lot of good advice on what I should done in a soft market.

Happy to move around, be deployed, whatever, -  that is what I signed up for.  I'm not so happy about putting my family's finances at risk - probably the first time I've seriously considered an exit strategy out of the military.  There is a lot of liability owning two houses.

Anyways, thought I'd mope around - misery loves company.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

"I'm not saying the CF should buy the homes if we cant sell but why not work it into the contract with Brookfield?"

That sure would make postings easier. 
I've had two moves with my present employer and the first time they wouldn't let me in the 'guaranteed price/ sell" like you described your neighbours as having because I had UFFI insulation. 
The second time I was in the program, and even though I made pretty good money on my first sell,  [without the buy program] and lost pretty good on my second [with the program], I would take the 'guarantee' again in a heartbeat just for the lack of stress of wondering how long I'm carrying two houses.