HMCS Iroquois' woes (merged)
- Thread starter Nfld Sapper
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 772
- Points
- 1,160
Cracks In HMCS Iroquois Will Limit Warship’s Operations
Patrick Smith
Ottawa Citizen
A Canadian military ship will be limited in future operations after cracks were discovered on the upper part of the vessel in late February.
HMCS Iroquois, an air defence destroyer ship that has been in use by the Royal Canadian Navy since 1972, suffered stress fractures to the superstructure – the part of the ship above the main deck – as a result of
stress from the sea’s movement.
The damage, on a portion of the ship that is above water, were discovered while HMCS Iroquois was completing a fleet exercise off the East Coast of the United States.
Further examination of the ship while it was docked in Boston, Mass. showed that the cracks’ impact were not serious enough to affect the current exercise. HMCS Iroquois was able to complete its mission and return
to Canada.
However, the Citizen has discovered that the ship, which is currently docked in Halifax, N.S. while engineers further assess the damage, will only be able to operate at limited capacity when the weather is bad.
Specifically, the Iroquois will be unable to navigate waters when the waves are particularly heavy.
The 42-year-old vessel typically operates in the North Atlantic Ocean, known for its rough water. The ship was declared safe enough to continue sailing in winter conditions during the examination in Boston.
As the Citizen reported in November 2013, Iroquois-class destroyers received a major upgrade in the 1990s and are scheduled for replacement in the mid-2020s if the government schedule remains on target.
Previous reports, though, have shown that officials do not expect the lifespan of these ships to last longer than 2017. As it stands, the ships will not be replaced before they are retired, leaving a sizeable gap in
Canada’s navy. Although the navy’s Halifax-class frigates will pick up some of the slack, the retirement of the Iroquois class will limit the range of operations the navy can undertake.
The Iroquois class has only three remaining ships: HMCS Iroquois, HMCS Athabaskan and HMCS Algonquin.
It’s unclear whether the Iroquois will be left in its current, restricted state, repaired for use until 2017, or retired from the fleet ahead of time.
The commanding officer of the ship was not available for comment.
Patrick Smith
Ottawa Citizen
A Canadian military ship will be limited in future operations after cracks were discovered on the upper part of the vessel in late February.
HMCS Iroquois, an air defence destroyer ship that has been in use by the Royal Canadian Navy since 1972, suffered stress fractures to the superstructure – the part of the ship above the main deck – as a result of
stress from the sea’s movement.
The damage, on a portion of the ship that is above water, were discovered while HMCS Iroquois was completing a fleet exercise off the East Coast of the United States.
Further examination of the ship while it was docked in Boston, Mass. showed that the cracks’ impact were not serious enough to affect the current exercise. HMCS Iroquois was able to complete its mission and return
to Canada.
However, the Citizen has discovered that the ship, which is currently docked in Halifax, N.S. while engineers further assess the damage, will only be able to operate at limited capacity when the weather is bad.
Specifically, the Iroquois will be unable to navigate waters when the waves are particularly heavy.
The 42-year-old vessel typically operates in the North Atlantic Ocean, known for its rough water. The ship was declared safe enough to continue sailing in winter conditions during the examination in Boston.
As the Citizen reported in November 2013, Iroquois-class destroyers received a major upgrade in the 1990s and are scheduled for replacement in the mid-2020s if the government schedule remains on target.
Previous reports, though, have shown that officials do not expect the lifespan of these ships to last longer than 2017. As it stands, the ships will not be replaced before they are retired, leaving a sizeable gap in
Canada’s navy. Although the navy’s Halifax-class frigates will pick up some of the slack, the retirement of the Iroquois class will limit the range of operations the navy can undertake.
The Iroquois class has only three remaining ships: HMCS Iroquois, HMCS Athabaskan and HMCS Algonquin.
It’s unclear whether the Iroquois will be left in its current, restricted state, repaired for use until 2017, or retired from the fleet ahead of time.
The commanding officer of the ship was not available for comment.
FSTO
Army.ca Veteran
- Reaction score
- 4,900
- Points
- 1,210
This all was so avoidable. We had a state of the art shipyard with an experienced workforce when the last Frigate was floated up. We knew we had to replace the AOR's and Tribals and Icebreakers and a myriad of Govt of Canada vessels and we did nothing. I really hope that there was an MP, a PS Mandarin or an Admiral who was raising this issue with the PMO at the time because once again, we are going to build a shipbuilding industry, from scratch, again.donaldk said:
- Reaction score
- 9,145
- Points
- 1,360
FSTO said:
Here is a picture of what our once state of the art shipyard looks like now:
and now back in the hey-day!
Talk is cheap and the jury is still out on the NSPS or whether this is just a rehash of recent history.
- Reaction score
- 9,145
- Points
- 1,360
FSTO said:
That's not even the biggest crime!
The government paid Irving millions of dollars as part of an economic stimulation package to dismantle their former shipyard in Saint John, NB so they could turn it into a wallboard factory and now we are paying them again to re-establish a shipbuilding industry in Halifax. Tell me how that makes sense :facepalm:
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 230
RoyalDrew said:
Wait... So the contracts awarded in 2011 are only going being cutting steel in 2015/16 for ships that will take 5 years to build? What the hell is taking so long? They have designs already?
- Reaction score
- 9,145
- Points
- 1,360
RedcapCrusader said:
Well we have no capacity to build ships in Canada anymore because the Chretien government paid Irving to close the Saint John shipyard down in the early 2000's which was the largest shipyard in Canada and the only one capable of building large warships. The problem is that now that we want to build ships again, we now have no capacity (because we closed the yards down) so we need to rebuild the capacity, hence the 10-15 year time frame to actually build ships... the Yards in Halifax and Vancouver were selected for the NSPS back in 2011 with full knowledge that they did not have the capacity to build the ships we wanted but that the government was going to pay to have the yards upgraded so that we would have the capacity in the future.
edit:
Mil Davie is actually the largest yard in Canada but hasn't really been up and running since the end of the Frigate Program.
Basically, we closed a shipyard down and paid to have it decommissioned only to turn around 10 years later and say "Wait a second! We really needed that after all!"
- Reaction score
- 13,516
- Points
- 1,010
This is basically why we cannot have nice things.
- Reaction score
- 4,412
- Points
- 1,160
It wasn't just Jean Chrétien; and, arguably, his government was not the most cavalier with things like defence and ship building.
(The notion that governments can use their programmes to create jobs in regions is very, very old. There are some very reputable historians who will tell you that e.g. Elizabeth I had her popular 'base' in the West Country and that she spent money on shipbuilding there to reward them.)
For many years the main aim of the national shipbuilding strategy (that's a sad misuse of the word strategy) was to ensure that Quebec got 25%+ of all contracts. It created expectations and encouraged fat, idle management.
I don't know to what degree shipbuilding is a viable industry in North America, or even in Western Europe, without massive, and generally unproductive government support. We are, essentially, whenever we build a warship or coastal ferry or cruise liner, running a welfare programme for less than well educated people in selected seaport towns. And jobs for those people is a 'holy grail' of modern, democratic politics as countries try to make the transition from low skill, high wage, coal fired, metal bending economies to something else.
And, by the way, there were naval officers (RAdm Ed Healey comes to mind) and senior civil servants (Bob Fowler) and even a few elected politicians who understood the problems (the plural matters) and proposed solutions (again, plural) ~ not always or even usually in concert and not always the same solutions ~ but the political imperatives always won.
(The notion that governments can use their programmes to create jobs in regions is very, very old. There are some very reputable historians who will tell you that e.g. Elizabeth I had her popular 'base' in the West Country and that she spent money on shipbuilding there to reward them.)
For many years the main aim of the national shipbuilding strategy (that's a sad misuse of the word strategy) was to ensure that Quebec got 25%+ of all contracts. It created expectations and encouraged fat, idle management.
I don't know to what degree shipbuilding is a viable industry in North America, or even in Western Europe, without massive, and generally unproductive government support. We are, essentially, whenever we build a warship or coastal ferry or cruise liner, running a welfare programme for less than well educated people in selected seaport towns. And jobs for those people is a 'holy grail' of modern, democratic politics as countries try to make the transition from low skill, high wage, coal fired, metal bending economies to something else.
And, by the way, there were naval officers (RAdm Ed Healey comes to mind) and senior civil servants (Bob Fowler) and even a few elected politicians who understood the problems (the plural matters) and proposed solutions (again, plural) ~ not always or even usually in concert and not always the same solutions ~ but the political imperatives always won.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
- Reaction score
- 9,477
- Points
- 1,160
The Westcoast yards are a bit leaner as we never really on the list for many goodies. They are good for doing repairs and such, but they need new builds every so often to renew Capital assets so they can compete. Not getting the ferry contracts certainly did not help the yards here and had as much to do with the current Provincial governments anti-union stance as it did costs. The politicization of the Fast ferry contract and the politicization of their disposal did not help either.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
RedcapCrusader said:
It was my understanding that things were even worse since before they can start to cut anything they still need to settle on a final design since anything they had now was still in the concept stage. I'm sure though there is a sailor out there who can shed even further light on the subject.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
I thought I heard on the news the engineering/design contract went overseas (Denmark perhaps?).
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 210
MSEng314 said:
I don't think the reporter "wanted to make the Navy look bad". The system does a great job of that as it is otherwise ships like the Iroquois would have been replaced long before they developed stress cracks. Making a story out of nothing is one thing but I don't see this issue as that. Imagine the article though if the damage hadn't been observed when it was and during the next big storm the escort ships are saying "Where did the bridge of the Iroquois go?" As it stands now though, our older ships due for replacement but still serviceable have been turned into old ships that can't be used in rough seas.
- Reaction score
- 5,405
- Points
- 1,040
This article is only half right; these are minor cracks that aren't in the primary structure and aren't limiting the ships operations. Pretty common to get cracking, particularly after 42 years of bending back and forth. Depending where it is and whether or not it's growing, you don't necessarily have to do anything other then just regularly monitor it.
The rest is surprisingly accurate though; wonder who had a beer with a reporter? :cheers:
The rest is surprisingly accurate though; wonder who had a beer with a reporter? :cheers:
- Reaction score
- 2
- Points
- 230
Eye In The Sky said:
AORs will be Berlin class ships as QUEENSTON class here in Canada. As for combat vessels... Speculation is they'll be similar if not identical to Norway's SVALBARD class Arctic patrol ship, and Denmark's Iver Huitfeldt class air defence frigate; but no design has been selected.
- Reaction score
- 772
- Points
- 1,160
From what I understand the source of the cracking has come from when during TRUMP the Que yard scalloped cut pieces from their keel weakening it to allow the installation of the water compensated fuel system. These cracks have existed since and have been continuously monitored and repaired. if there is now a operational limitation placed on the max sea state the ship is allowed to operate in then its pretty serious. I suspect this may be a temporary restriction until an comprehensive assessment is done and repairs may be made.
Eye In The Sky
Army.ca Legend
- Reaction score
- 3,780
- Points
- 1,160
RedcapCrusader said:
Roger. I recall seeing a CTV or CBC NS news report that Irving had contracted out or got the go-ahead to contract out some design work to an overseas company; IRCC it was late last fall?
