Hate America, Regardless...

[48Highlander]

That article is dated July 8th. There are 900 in Kabul right now. Some simple Google searches will get you what you want.

    Whoops.  I'll admit I didn't look at the date, I just assumed that an official french government site would keep that sort of information up to date.  Thanks for the correction.

 

[jmackenzie_15]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't they a major supplier of troops, arms, and cash to the American revolution?

I thought so.... where did that big statue in new york come from anyway? =p

 

[chrisf]

The American revolution was a sideways cause of the French revolution, as the French spent so much money bank-rolling the American revolution, it drove their country to bankruptcy. As peasents starved in the streets, troops were returning from America, where they had been fighting alongside American troops, with their heads now filled with ideas of democracy and representation for the lower classes, and prepared to fight against the monarch... (Among other causes)

 

[ibucephalus]

theres something like 100 different countries represented in afghanistan alone

The NATO web-site lists 37 nations that contribute forces to ISAF, including 873 troops from France. The information is dated 21 Nov 2004.

There is an indeterminate (though likely small) number of nations contributing to Operation Enduring Freedom, the continuing US operation in Afghanistan.

Edited to add;

the French have always been America's enemy

By the use of the word "enemy" do you mean "close ally"? That seems the only logical conclusion based on an objective look at the the US - French relationship, especially in the 20th century. The following are some instances where the US and Fance have been allies: The First World War, The Second World War, The Korean War, The French War in Indo-china, The Cold War, the War on Terror.

When I first read your post I thought you were being ironic.

 

[Canuck_25]

Well, got a little confused between German and French troop contributions. Still, France is not the U.S.'s enemy and im sure if france was, it wouldnt be contributing troops to afganistan.

 

[Infanteer]

Saying France is a natural and historic enemy of the United States is just silly - especially when it's over a little Realpolitik fallout (which we have every now-and-then with America as well).  Who's up for Freedom Fries?

 

[Infanteer]

Google Yorktown.  There is a reason Cornwallis couldn't leave.

 

[a_majoor]

While the French were instrumental in assisting the American Revolution, it was an exercise in Realpolitik for France, since the revolutionary war tied up a lot of British ships and troops which might otherwise have been  used against France. Since France has also been soundly drubbed in the Seven Year's War, revenge is also a strong motive.

Not long after "These United States" gained Independence, America was involved in a protracted "cold war" with France, and in the 1860s, France openly supported the Confederacy.

The French, like everyone else, are driven by their perceived self interest. Unfortunately for France, they seem to have much bigger "self interests" then their economy and population is able to support, still nursing dreams of their lost Colonial Empire and the glories of Napoleon.

 

[ibucephalus]

It seems to me that this type of behavior is similar to having a "friend" in a barfight kick you in the balls after you get sucker punched.

Or perhaps having an "ally" drop a laser-guided "bomb" on you while on "operations" together in "Afghanistan"? The incident you quote sounds like a bad case of friendly fire. It happens. You carry on. Have you got any grievances more recent than 200 years ago? The way you complain about things from the distant past makes you sound sort of like a Bosnian.

 

[squealiox]

here's an interesting take on the frenchies,

http://www.exile.ru/2003-October-02/war_nerd.html

 

[48Highlander]

You can't pick sides in the Serbia/Bosnia conflict.  It had nothing to do with payback.  The Serbs just didn't want to see their country disintegrate.  If Quebec decided to seperate, would we let them go?  During the last referendum we put the military on alert....so unless we were planning to send soldiers to wave goodbye to them, I think we'd be responding much like the Serbs did.  Minus ofcourse the mass killings, which both sides of that conflict were equaly responsible for.

 

[Marauder]

It never fails to amuse me when loonie lefties say that hating Dubya doesn't equate to hating America. HELLLLLOOOO, it was the MAJORITY of AMERICANS who set Dubya up in the nice office of Oval design.
Just wanted to point of some of the more blatant hypocrisy the commies and loons keep shoving in our faces as The Truth (may Papa Joe rot in hell).

Oh yeah, and fuck France, just because.

 

[chrisf]

HELLLLLOOOO, it was the MAJORITY of AMERICANS who set Dubya up in the nice office of Oval design.

Um, actually, it wasn't...while he was elected through democractic process, the majority of American's didn't vote for him...

 

[Infanteer]

:boring:

 

[48Highlander]

There was a lot of historical baggage in the conflict.....Historical hatred and ethnic cleansing had little to do with keeping a country together.

    You're right ofcourse.  Hatred never needs a solid reason or an attainable goal, just enough influential people fanning the flames.  That sort of hatred is what caused the other states to attempt to leave Yugoslavia in the first place.

    Serbia saw itself as the center of Yugoslavia, so when the country started falling apart they decided it was in their best interest to stop that from happening.  Regaurdless of the "historical hate" that might exist, their original plan had nothing to do with slaughtering Bosnians and Croats.  When the war started going badly for them, they resorted to "ethnic cleansing".  The Croats and Bosnians meanwhile were carrying on a similar campaign against the Serbs who lived in those states.  Even very little of that was fueled by "historical hatred".  Once random killings start taking place, people tend to be motivated much more by more recent hatred, fear, and a desire for revenge.  While the people in that part of the world may go on for days about some injustice done to them back in 1637, they tend to be motivated into action by much more recent occurances.  History is only a small part of it.

    I was born in Yugoslavia and lived there for 10 years or so.  The only sign of hatred I ever saw before moving to Canada was one time when our car was broken into and everything inside torn apart.  Turns out it happened because we were in Croatia and had Serbian licence-plates.  That's it though.  Half of my family was Croatian and the other half was Serbian.  We used to get together on a regular basis and have a great time together.  Lots of raki and kebabs for everyone regaurdless of where you live.  I remember my grandfathers getting drunk together and telling me stories about what it was like growing up during ww2.  3 years later, one of those grandfathers was directing Serbian airforce efforts over croatia, and the other was a Croatian war-criminal accused of slaughtering dozens of Serb civilians.  I very much doubt that either of them had "historical hatred" motivating their actions.

 

[1feral1]

    Half of my family was Croatian and the other half was Serbian.  

Just changing the topic slightly, but on the humourous side, there is an Australian movie called "The Wog Boy", a truly good comedy, filmed in Melbourne, Victoria (late 1990s), and a great laugh.

In the movie there is a Cro-Serbian 'standover man' bloke who plays such a good funny role. Anyways, with the tradional high tempered stereotype of the reagion of the FRY, he blurts out in the movie "I am half Serbian, half Croation, and when I get mad, I wanna kill myself".

If this movie is available in Canada, hire it, and you'll have good laugh.

Cold beers,

Wes

 

[48Highlander]

Well 48Highlander, you have a personal connection to Yugoslavia that I have nothing to compare to.   I can only recount the numerous reports and bits and pieces I gleaned from the local workers we had at Eagle Base and some of our small camps.   Do the Serbs celebrate their defeat as a victory?   I always thought they did.   Regardless I think the whole thing was stupid, blowing up each other, for what?

    The ones I know seem to avoid thinking about it instead of celebrating or mourning.   Most of them deffinitely don't consider it a defeat though.   And, as seems to be the trend these days, most of them blame the US for both the first war and the Kosovo campaign.   Although as far as Kosovo is concerned, they seem to hold Milosevic equaly responsible.

    Thanks for the laugh Wes, I'll keep an eye out for that movie

 

[a_majoor]

Apparently, Al Jezzera is blaming the United States for causing the Tsunami. Wonder why that took so long to figure out.....

 

[Sailing Instructor]

If one argues that people cannot argue with (I'll not say hate, as this only applies to few 'leftys,' or whatever they're called) a gov't without logically arguing with those who chose the gov't then does it not follow that the electors themselves may not agree with their own gov't?  Logically, this is true.  But rationally it is absurd.  Those who may be called leftys (I disagree with the left/right terms as they tear people like me apart) have a good reason to say that they are anti-Bush (or anti-war-in-Iraq) without being anti-American.  A vote, I think, does not completely spell out one's entire political philosophy--I dare say few voters even have a coherent one upon which to base their vote.

I have to say, to get back to the original issue, it's nice that America is helping those tsunamied peoples no matter if it's just because that's the right thing to do or pragmatically because the terrorists won't have a (rather faulty) reason to attack America.  Either way, it does some good.

 

[Slim]

Apparently the Mullah's and the Imams in the M.E. are running around telling their flock (read blind followers) that the Tsunami is Allah's way of punishing us in the decadent, zionist west...

What a load. The only sad thing is that, of course, the masses over there believe it!

How we will win this one is beyond me!

Slim