Governor General's Coat of Arms

[Glorified Ape]

I read a letter on the Toronto Star's website complaining of the lack of Canadian content in Michaelle Jean's new coat of arms, found here:

http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/03/index_e.asp

While it seems kind of a petty thing to fault her for, I was curious as to people's perceptions. Aside from the crown, being symoblic of her role and arguably a British symbol, there isn't a single piece of Canadian symbolism. While it's apparently a tradition for the GG to include personal heritage in the coat of arms, it seems strange that there would be 0 inclusion of anything Canadian. Clarkson had the loon, Leblanc had maple leaves and native headdress, etc. Would we know this was a Canadian coat of arms if it wasn't explicitly stated?

Opinions?

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

I will admit I started the thread on the questionable past of the new GG but since then I am of the opinion that she will
most likely not stray far from the ways of Mrs Clarkson's reign.

She has renounced her duo citizenship and doesn't strike me as a GG who will rock the boat. I guess maybee she has
done alot of deep soul searching since the day the position was offered to her and is now doing what she can to appease
everyone. After all you can change alot of things but you cant change your heritage.

 

[George Wallace]

I notice that besides the Crown, there is also an "Order of Canada" with Maple Leaf.  Hidden (both sides the O of C) near the bottom are a Palm tree on the left and a Pine on the right.  The Water symbol at the bottom (similar to Ottawa's usage).  There are some Canadian symbolism there, and also some Haitian.  I suppose, only fitting for her history.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I was always under the impression that nothing surmounted the crown in armorial symbolism, if so awarded.  A conch shell as the penultimate heraldic symbol on the arms seems a tad disrespectful to me, as the GG serves the Crown, not the conch.....

 

[Glorified Ape]

I notice that besides the Crown, there is also an "Order of Canada" with Maple Leaf.  Hidden (both sides the O of C) near the bottom are a Palm tree on the left and a Pine on the right.  The Water symbol at the bottom (similar to Ottawa's usage).  There are some Canadian symbolism there, and also some Haitian.  I suppose, only fitting for her history.

Ah HA! I didn't even recognize the OC.

I was always under the impression that nothing surmounted the crown in armorial symbolism, if so awarded.   A conch shell as the penultimate heraldic symbol on the arms seems a tad disrespectful to me, as the GG serves the Crown, not the conch.....

Clarkson had something similar - the loon was at the very top. Leblanc too, I believe - the native headdress was uppermost.

 

[SHELLDRAKE!!]

Sounds like something out of Lord of the Flies.........."No talking, I have the conch"

 

[George Wallace]

We may be off base here in considering it a 'Governor General's' Coat of Arms.   It is more likely to to be considered a 'Family' Coat of Arms.   I know ours is surmounted with a Helmet with an arm holding a sword above it.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I heard "Milanollo" is going to be rewritten to a reggae tempo.

 

[Glorified Ape]

We may be off base here in considering it a 'Governor General's' Coat of Arms.   It is more likely to to be considered a 'Family' Coat of Arms.   I know ours is surmounted with a Helmet with an arm holding a sword above it.

I'm pretty sure the GG has the coat of arms designed and created specifically for the office.

 

[Gunnar]

Speaking in a heraldic vein, there is no such thing as a "family" coat of arms.  A coat of arms, and the right to bear arms is granted to a specific person.  It is not created specifically for the office, but because of her position IN the office, one is created for her.

The Governor General's Coat of Arms is her personal arms, awarded to her as one of Canada's gentry.  It should not be confused with the arms for the Governor General's office, which are probably merely the same as the Arms for HRM in Right of Canada (dieu et mon droit).  She is our designated Head of State, after all.

Helmets, and the way they face imply certain divisions of rank.  As she is not a knight, a baron, etc., she doesn't get one.

She has the Royal crown displayed on her escutcheon (shield), probably in honour of the fact that she IS the Queen's representative....she would have no right to have a crown otherwise unless she were royalty....but this is why the crown in on the shield, and not above it.  Permission to have a crown on your arms is usually granted from Royalty...you wouldn't ordinarily have one there unless you were a king or something.

The Order of Canada is included because as GG, she is the principal of the Order, I believe, or at least the representative of the Crown, who is principal of the order.  This is why you won't see a GG without a snowflake.  Unless she screws up really, really badly, they won't remove it when she steps down, so she will continue to have the right to put display it heraldically.

Mermaids and conch shells are maritime too, and do not specifically point to her heritage outside of Canada.  Canada's motto is still "A mari, usque, ad mare" (from sea to sea) and we actually have a third one on top of the country...Strictly speaking, the palm tree is the only "Carribbean" element...and putting it on the left (the way you read) makes it look like..."I came from palm trees to pine trees, but I'm still surrounded by ocean".

Your arms are a representation of *you*, and it's entirely appropriate to put elements of your history on it...basically saying "I am A, B, C, D and E....and CANADIAN".

More information on heraldry, how to get it, and what it all means can be found on the web site listed, under the "Canadian Heraldic Authority" tab.  However, it appears to me that a great deal of care went into the design of this one--it says a lot of things symbolically.

 

[George Wallace]

Speaking in a heraldic vein, there is no such thing as a "family" coat of arms.   A coat of arms, and the right to bear arms is granted to a specific person.  

I might argue this on trivial technicalities.  The Clans of Scotland, for instance, have Family/Clan Coats of Arms.  Granted, only the head of the Clan is permitted to display it, while all the rest of us peons will have to make do with the Family Crest.  ;D

 

[geo]

I am positive that the new GG did not have a family coat of arms and it was only after being appointed & being TOLD that she needed one that this one was assembled.

I believe that, in spite of the above, much thought went into it's design and, for what it's worth, I like it. (might have given thought to giving the mermaids some parkas though)

With respect to her not rocking the boat...
Well, when you consider that she does not stand for the status quo "two solitudes" and believes that the route to diversity we have embarked upon creates ethnic gettos that should not be allowed.... I think there are enough hints given that her 5 year term might be an interesting one.
( She also appears to have a better taste in designer clothing than Mrs Clarkson IMHO)

 

[George Wallace]

I am positive that the new GG did not have a family coat of arms

Even if she did, unless she was the head of the Family/Clan she would not have been permitted to use it.

 

[geo]

Doh!
That's what I meant

 

[Gunnar]

Point of Order:   The arms are the arms of the clan chief, not of the family.   Much like the Royal Arms of the Duke of Windsor can be used by the Duke of Winsdor, and not by his third nephew. (He may use a closely related *version* of the arms, which point to his heritage, without claiming he IS the Duke...but that's not the same thing).   There may be cases where authority has been delegated to a family member to speak on Ducal things, in which case they may use the arms by proxy...but they're still the Duke's arms...This is essentially what you said with the arms/crest difference...The Duke's (or clan's) arms are not the family's arms....they're arms in use by a member of the family, to which you do not have a right (to wear, use or display).

This is why the GG has the Dieu et mon Droit as the GG's arms, but her own arms are different.   She's been granted the Queen's arms by proxy.

So the Duke of Windsor has his own arms...and when he pops off, the new Duke of Windsor has the Duke of Windsor's arms.   He may also have his own arms, which are separate and distinct from his position as the Duke of Windsor.   Those arms will fall by the wayside and he will use Ducal arms in anything official he has to do as the Duke...but when you look at a heraldic history of the Dukes, you'll see his original arms...

Clear as mud?   This is what happens when you make positions hereditary.

 

[Glorified Ape]

Speaking in a heraldic vein, there is no such thing as a "family" coat of arms.   A coat of arms, and the right to bear arms is granted to a specific person.   It is not created specifically for the office, but because of her position IN the office, one is created for her.

The Governor General's Coat of Arms is her personal arms, awarded to her as one of Canada's gentry.   It should not be confused with the arms for the Governor General's office, which are probably merely the same as the Arms for HRM in Right of Canada (dieu et mon droit).   She is our designated Head of State, after all.

Helmets, and the way they face imply certain divisions of rank.   As she is not a knight, a baron, etc., she doesn't get one.

She has the Royal crown displayed on her escutcheon (shield), probably in honour of the fact that she IS the Queen's representative....she would have no right to have a crown otherwise unless she were royalty....but this is why the crown in on the shield, and not above it.   Permission to have a crown on your arms is usually granted from Royalty...you wouldn't ordinarily have one there unless you were a king or something.

The Order of Canada is included because as GG, she is the principal of the Order, I believe, or at least the representative of the Crown, who is principal of the order.   This is why you won't see a GG without a snowflake.   Unless she screws up really, really badly, they won't remove it when she steps down, so she will continue to have the right to put display it heraldically.

Mermaids and conch shells are maritime too, and do not specifically point to her heritage outside of Canada.   Canada's motto is still "A mari, usque, ad mare" (from sea to sea) and we actually have a third one on top of the country...Strictly speaking, the palm tree is the only "Carribbean" element...and putting it on the left (the way you read) makes it look like..."I came from palm trees to pine trees, but I'm still surrounded by ocean".

Your arms are a representation of *you*, and it's entirely appropriate to put elements of your history on it...basically saying "I am A, B, C, D and E....and CANADIAN".

More information on heraldry, how to get it, and what it all means can be found on the web site listed, under the "Canadian Heraldic Authority" tab.   However, it appears to me that a great deal of care went into the design of this one--it says a lot of things symbolically.

If you read the link in the original post, the symbolism and history of the Simbis (mermaids) and conch shells is explained, as well as the chain.

 

[Gunnar]

You are correct.  This falls under "the arms are a representation of you" part.  I'd like to say that I had intended that in the first place...but, I went back and read the whole page.  Still, conch shells and mermaids still aren't specifically un-Canadian.  But they are specifically part of her history and thoughts....so?

The arms you choose don't have to be an political statement.  Certain elements are, by design, but I don't see the whole thing as a pro-Haiti smack in the face to Canadians.  It's simply a nice design that reflects her as a person, complete with her own belief system.

 

[Glorified Ape]

You are correct.   This falls under "the arms are a representation of you" part.   I'd like to say that I had intended that in the first place...but, I went back and read the whole page.   Still, conch shells and mermaids still aren't specifically un-Canadian.   But they are specifically part of her history and thoughts....so?

The arms you choose don't have to be an political statement.   Certain elements are, by design, but I don't see the whole thing as a pro-Haiti smack in the face to Canadians.   It's simply a nice design that reflects her as a person, complete with her own belief system.

No doubt - I don't disagree. The criticism levelled (in the aforementioned letter) was that the coat of arms lacked Canadian symbols - mermaids and conch shells are not particularly Canadian by any stretch of the imagination. I can't recall either ever being used, in any capacity, as a national symbol. Can conch shells even be found, naturally occuring, in Canada? Whereas the loon, maple leaves, and native feathers/head dress are more representative.

I'm more inclined to take your view, but I thought I'd present it for discussion. I think the GG's coat of arms should be strongly influenced by his/her personal heritage (as it has traditionally been) but I can see why people might think the Haitian ancestry thing was a bit over-done, though the OC was included (as it is in all GG coats of arms).

 

[Michael OLeary]

Keep in mind that the Governor General's Flag (http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/index_e.asp) is a symbol that stands for the office.

The "Personal Coat of Arms of the Governor General" is just that: her personal coat of arms. There's a precedent that its symbology stands for her personal history and heritage, lnking to Canada where applicable. It is not meant for her to create a perception of Canadianization through her personal coat of arms. Note that these harken back to a day when it was unlikely that anyone would be appointed to such a post without their family having such a crest to begin with.

See some past examples from the Governor General of Canada website:

The Coat of Arms of The Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson include a crown, a loon and trilliums, but its symbols are not predominantly Canadian in heritage.
http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/05/emblems-ac_e.asp

The phoenix rising from flames is a blend of Eastern and Western symbolism: the Chinese-style phoenix represents Mme Clarkson's family's roots among the Toysan and Hakka people in Southern China, as well as her birthplace, Hong Kong. This Chinese phoenix is linked with the Western cultural symbolism of the bird rising from the flames, representing rebirth and re-creation.

The tigers are Mme Clarkson's favourite animals.

Symbolism of the Armorial Bearings of the Right Honourable Ramon John Hnatyshyn
http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/05/emblems-rjn_e.asp

As in the flag of the Ukraine (from where His Excellency's family originated), the background of the shield is divided horizontally, sky-blue over gold.

the lion holding a heart is drawn from the arms of Denmark

The bull is a symbol of Bukovina, the birthplace of His Excellency's parents. On its collar is a special emblem linking Saskatchewan and the Ukraine: on the prairie lily â “Saskatchewan flower- is the Ukrainian trident (tryzub), the symbol of the Ukrainian people for over a millennium.

Shall we infer that Madame Jean's coat of arms infers some slight to Canada, when it represents her heritage, as her predecessors have also represented theirs? Taken collectively, I think they make a grand representation of our Nation's cultural heritage and diversity.

 

[Glorified Ape]

Keep in mind that the Governor General's Flag (http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/index_e.asp) is a symbol that stands for the office.

The "Personal Coat of Arms of the Governor General" is just that: her personal coat of arms. There's a precedent that its symbology stands for her personal history and heritage, lnking to Canada where applicable. It is not meant for her to create a perception of Canadianization through her personal coat of arms. Note that these harken back to a day when it was unlikely that anyone would be appointed to such a post without their family having such a crest to begin with.

See some past examples from the Governor General of Canada website:

The Coat of Arms of The Right Honourable Adrienne Clarkson include a crown, a loon and trilliums, but its symbols are not predominantly Canadian in heritage.
http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/05/emblems-ac_e.asp


Symbolism of the Armorial Bearings of the Right Honourable Ramon John Hnatyshyn
http://www.gg.ca/heraldry/emb/05/emblems-rjn_e.asp


Shall we infer that Madame Jean's coat of arms infers some slight to Canada, when it represents her heritage, as her predecessors have also represented theirs? Taken collectively, I think they make a grand representation of our Nation's cultural heritage and diversity.

Granted and I agree, though for:

Hnatyshyn:

A deer and a bull, each in sky-blue and gold, stand above a compartment symbolizing the forests and grainfields of Saskatchewan, which rise above waters representing the South Saskatchewan River. The deer, one of the supporters of the arms of the province of Saskatchewan, wears a collar featuring the badge of the House of Commons of Canada.

Clarkson:

The maple leaf in the flames indicates their new beginnings as Canadians.... The trilliums represent both Mme Clarkson's home province, Ontario, and the meaning of her Chinese first name, which is a metaphor for "ice flowering branch". The loon is commonly found around her island cottage on Georgian Bay. She and her husband, John Ralston Saul, have long admired the loon and participate in efforts to protect and conserve the local population of loons and other wildlife. She feels it also symbolizes the magnificent nature of the North and has resonance for many Canadians who admire its call and its beauty. The cross and white disc are a symbol of her faith, based on the badge granted to the Anglican Church of Canada in 1995.

Leblanc:

The national colours of red and white are given additional significance, the white recalling M. LeBlanc's family name, one of the most well known and numerous of all Acadian families.... The four eagle feathers encircled by a band of Micmac quill decoration honour the first Peoples of Canada and their artistry and cultures... These stand on a compartment symbolizing Canada from sea to sea and the multi-ethnic character of the Canadian people.  The central portion also recalls the Micmac origin of the word Memramcook, meaning multi-coloured landscape... Composed of fleur de lys and maple leaves the dolphins' collars represent M. LeBlanc's service to Canada, his Acadian roots and the various French language communities of the country.