Getting separated need help with paperwork?

[PMedMoe]

I'll give you that.  :nod: 

I've seen both sides become pretty bad.

 

[Pusser]

Although i am not completely sure, but i have heard from some RMS clerks that they cannot touch your pension unless you have been together for a min of 10 yrs.

If you're not "completely sure," then don't make stupid and dangerous statements, particularly when they are wrong!  Any assets acquired during a relationship are up for adjudication.

The OP has found a lawyer and that's good.  No one should ever try to do this without good legal advice.  And don't go cheap on it.  Extra money spent on good lawyers is well worth the cost for future peace of mind.  I have witnessed too many folks go down because they tried this on their own or went cheap.

No, the AJAG cannot provide legal advice for these sorts of things.  However, they can and generally will provide general advice (e.g. "you need to get a civilian lawyer") and will often provide referrals, especially if you're looking for lawyers who understand the military.  Remember that the legal community (of which JAG lawyers are all a part) is pretty tight and they all know who does what and who does it best.  It costs you nothing to ask.

 

[Occam]

Although i am not completely sure, but i have heard from some RMS clerks that they cannot touch your pension unless you have been together for a min of 10 yrs.

I, however, am completely sure that the info you got from those RMS clerks is 100% wrong.

I missed this post earlier.  The pensionable service while one is married (or common law) is eligible for division under PBDA whether it is one day, one year, or 10 years.  I have a ~$200 deduction from my monthly CFSA annuity to remind me of that for the remainder of my days....stubborn, greedy mare...but I'm not bitter.  ;D

 

[misratah500]

Well I have discussed it with the lawyer over the phone and he said he will draft up an agreement for me. And then we have to notify her to get legal council. Then we present the agreement to her to read and sign. And possibly look over it with her legal council.

I have to keep him on retainer, but it's an investment as far as I'm concerned. He also said that no separation agreement is 100% watertight and that a judge could throw it out if its slanted to heavily in my favour.

 

[The Anti-Royal]

Based on my personal experience with the process, and having been involved (peripherally) in the trials and tribulations of some peers and subordinates, I support your retention of a lawyer.  It's essential that any agreement be done right from the start and that it contain as much detail as possible.  Division of assets (and debts) accumulated during the "marriage", and custody of and access to children are usually the main sticking points.

I'd recommend that, once the parties have agreed to the form and content of the agreement, that it be brought to a judge for his or her sign-off thus turning it into a Court Order.  This can probably be done through a motion on consent (i.e., both parties agree).

Regarding pension, the Pension Benefits Division Act applies.  If your significant other was indeed considered to be a spouse under law, she has the right to 50% of the contributions made from the date you were "married" to the date of separation.  There's no ten-year caveat.

I used my lawyer as my staff officer.  I gave him my intent on all issues and insisted that he obtain my approval for all communications between him and counsel for my ex-wife before he sent them, just to make sure that my intent was being followed.  Always remember that you're the boss, not your lawyer.

Try your best to figure out on what matter(s) you will fight to the death, and tell your lawyer what it is/they are.  The rest are, in relative terms, fluff.

Lastly (and perhaps, most importantly), do your best to shelter your child from what's going on.  Don't badmouth Mom if there's any chance the child may hear (even second-hand).  If she does it to you, don't respond.  Document it, and if it gets bad enough, you may have a case for parental alienation (although the burden of proof is very heavy).  Kids need their parents to be adults.

Good luck to you.

 

[Pusser]

Based on my personal experience with the process, and having been involved (peripherally) in the trials and tribulations of some peers and subordinates, I support your retention of a lawyer.  It's essential that any agreement be done right from the start and that it contain as much detail as possible.  Division of assets (and debts) accumulated during the "marriage", and custody of and access to children are usually the main sticking points.

I'd recommend that, once the parties have agreed to the form and content of the agreement, that it be brought to a judge for his or her sign-off thus turning it into a Court Order.  This can probably be done through a motion on consent (i.e., both parties agree).

Regarding pension, the Pension Benefits Division Act applies.  If your significant other was indeed considered to be a spouse under law, she has the right to 50% of the contributions made from the date you were "married" to the date of separation.  There's no ten-year caveat.

I used my lawyer as my staff officer.  I gave him my intent on all issues and insisted that he obtain my approval for all communications between him and counsel for my ex-wife before he sent them, just to make sure that my intent was being followed.  Always remember that you're the boss, not your lawyer.

Try your best to figure out on what matter(s) you will fight to the death, and tell your lawyer what it is/they are.  The rest are, in relative terms, fluff.

Lastly (and perhaps, most importantly), do your best to shelter your child from what's going on.  Don't badmouth Mom if there's any chance the child may hear (even second-hand).  If she does it to you, don't respond.  Document it, and if it gets bad enough, you may have a case for parental alienation (although the burden of proof is very heavy).  Kids need their parents to be adults.

Good luck to you.

Yes and no.  The PBDA is a starting point and in most situations will also be the end point.  For the most part it is a formula for equal division of the asset (generally 50% of the value of the pension earned during the period the couple was together - i.e. not necessarily 1/2 the total pension.  If you're only together for two years out of a 35 year career, the ex-spouse actually sees very little, but if you're married for your entire career, he/she basically gets half).  However, both parties can agree to waive the provisions of the PBDA and choose another formula that suits them.  Be very careful in choosing this option as it could lead to other problems further down the road.

On a side note, the ex-spouse does not receive a pension or any money that can be used right away.  Instead, an actuarial calculation is made and he/she is given a lump sum payment, which if invested properly, should provide an annuity (equal to what the pension payment would have been) payable at retirement age.  The ex-spouse is required to deposit it into a locked-in RRSP until that point.  The member's CFSA annuity is then reduced accordingly for the rest of his/her life.

 

[The Anti-Royal]

Thank you, Pusser, for the clarification.

One more thing about pension division - the ex-spouse's portion of the divided pension must be deposited into a locked-in retirement savings vehicle, but she may choose to cash it out as soon as the $$ are dropped into the account.  She's required to pay the taxes, though.

If pension division is to happen, the "owner" of the pension must so apply.  There's a form for that (isn't there always?).

 

[Occam]

Thank you, Pusser, for the clarification.

One more thing about pension division - the ex-spouse's portion of the divided pension must be deposited into a locked-in retirement savings vehicle, but she may choose to cash it out as soon as the $$ are dropped into the account.  She's required to pay the taxes, though.

If pension division is to happen, the "owner" of the pension must so apply.  There's a form for that (isn't there always?).

The pension payout to the ex-spouse must be deposited to a locked-in vehicle until age 55.  That's why it is called "locked-in".  Even then, they can only draw an annuity.

Also, either spouse can apply for the pension split.  My lawyer told me to do nothing - which is precisely what I did.  If she had not applied for it, there was no obligation for me to make it happen.

 

[The Anti-Royal]

Learning is a lifelong process.  Thanks, Occam.

 

[Occam]

Learning is a lifelong process.  Thanks, Occam.

No problem.  I was simply tickled to hear from my lawyer that she would never be able to touch the principal or interest of the lump sum payout that she received.  It also explained why she desperately wanted me to pay her out in cash as part of the settlement, rather than do the pension split.

There was learning alright...I'm sure my lawyer's kids got a very nice education thanks to my stubborn, greedy mare darling ex.  But I'm not bitter!  ;D

 

[The Anti-Royal]

I feel ya, man (on both counts).

Why do people shell out so much money for a divorce?

Because it's worth it.

 

[PMedMoe]

Mine cost under $500.  ;D

 

[misratah500]

So I saw a lawyer last week. He costs 250 an hour :facepalm:. But I think its going to be worth it. He said we can draft up an agreement that can be pretty water tight on my assets and pension. But he said I'm going to have to pay full child support even if we do 50/50 because she makes 0 and I make 90k. I have no problem with that. I'll probably save money actually by not having her under my roof. He said the no spousal support part could be iffy, if this ever went to court. But she doesn't want any so we put in no contest. I'll have it drafted up today. It will cost me around 750-1000 bucks. But it will be worth it.

In other news, she just got a job that will pay her around 30k a year. Thats good news for her and I as well. I think my payments will drop a bit because of that. Things are looking up. Just need her out of here now.

 

[GAP]

Mine cost under $500.  ;D

I didn't know hitmen came that cheap...... ;D

 

[CountDC]

not looking in the right places gap - a 40 and a carton will get it done if you're not too picky about the method. >

 

[aesop081]

I think my payments will drop a bit because of that.

Remember that child support payments are based on your salary alone, not hers. The ammount is decided based on the tables set by the federal government (based on the province you live in). If she gets a job, it will not change your child support payment at all.

 

[Arctic Acorn]

So I saw a lawyer last week. He costs 250 an hour :facepalm:. But I think its going to be worth it. He said we can draft up an agreement that can be pretty water tight on my assets and pension. But he said I'm going to have to pay full child support even if we do 50/50 because she makes 0 and I make 90k. I have no problem with that. I'll probably save money actually by not having her under my roof. He said the no spousal support part could be iffy, if this ever went to court. But she doesn't want any so we put in no contest. I'll have it drafted up today. It will cost me around 750-1000 bucks. But it will be worth it.

In other news, she just got a job that will pay her around 30k a year. Thats good news for her and I as well. I think my payments will drop a bit because of that. Things are looking up. Just need her out of here now.

Best of luck to you. I separated from my ex about this time last year. I don't think there's too much I can add here that hasn't already been said (probably the best place you could ever go to ask about divorce advice is to ask a bunch of military folks).

I will say this...I don't know how long the mandatory separation period will be for you two as you're in BC, but here in NS it's a year. It's going to be a long year for you both. Just keep a positive attitude about it, and no matter what happens try and be the bigger person about whatever happens. It sounds like you're on the right track.

 

[misratah500]

What is a mandatory separation period? I've never heard of that and the lawyer didn't mention anything about that. She has said "no contest" to spousal support. She doesn't want any. But the lawyer seems to think some sort of spousal support will be awarded on paper. But if she doesn't want it, the courts can't make me pay it. Only she can actually go and complain its not getting paid.

Were not married by the way, were common law with a 3 year old. I don't know if that separation period is for actual marriage or not? Can you clarify.

 

[aesop081]

You're not married, don't worry about it. Most jurisdiction make you wait one year between separation and filing for divorce.

 

[cupper]

One sage piece of advice I learned when a former GF was in law school and starting out in practice. All divorce settlements start at 50/50. Whicch way the scales tip depends on how good your lawyer is relative to the other side.