• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Georgia and the Russian invasions/annexations/Lebensraum (2008 & 2015)

oligarch said:
I..... Why are you calling me a "lady"? What are you implying about the "lady" status that you are trying to offend me with it?
Click to expand...

I don't know.  Perhaps it is your blank profile.  Are you insinuating now that you are a man?  I didn't know, as your profile doesn't state so.

oligarch said:
Besides, speaking of Russia so much on this board, in Russia you would be dealt with a lot fewer words after such remarks.
Click to expand...

In some circles that could be construed as a "Threat".

oligarch said:
But since we are in a mature enviournment, I now call into question your moderator status. Further comments from you go in the "ingore" pile. My diplomatic relations with George Wallace have been severed.
Click to expand...

I didn't know we had "diplomatic relations".  Are you also insinuating that I do not have the same privileges as other members to post on this site?
 
Here is another excellent report from Micheal Totten who has just arrived in Georgia. In the report he interviews a local reporter who is an expert on the Georgia conflict, and other conflicts in the region.

http://www.michaeltotten.com/

 
Russia gives diplomatic recognition to the two breakaway provinces of Georgia. Oh well.


http://en.rian.ru/russia/20080826/116286788.html

MOSCOW, August 26 (RIA Novosti) - Russia's president signed decrees on Tuesday recognizing Georgia's breakaway South Ossetia and Abkhazia as independent states and called on other countries to follow suit.

"This is not an easy decision, but it is the only way to protect people's lives," Medvedev said in a televised address.

Both houses of Russia's parliament voted unanimously on Monday on a resolution asking the Russian president to recognize the independence of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, following requests from the leaders of both breakaway republics.

The move will further worsen Russia's relations with the West, already strained over Moscow's response to Georgia's attack earlier this month to retake South Ossetia.

U.S. President George W. Bush and German Chancellor Angela Merkel warned Medvedev against the move on Monday, urging him to respect Georgia's territorial integrity.

Russian officials have said Georgia lost its right to the two regions after launching a military offensive that killed hundreds of people and forced thousands to flee devastated South Ossetia.
Click to expand...
 
So, if you kill thousands of your own people you forfeit the right to govern their territory?  :rofl:  Russia would be about the size of Liechtenstein if that were the case.
 
We recognise Kosovo.  They recognise South Ossetia and Abkhazia.  Hopefully this means that they will give up North Ossetia to unite with their Ossetian brothers from the south.  Anyway, check out my tag line.  The war is COLD and it appears to be on again.
 
The problem is coming up with a gameplan to deal with Russian meddling in its neighbors affairs.We either abandon these countries because we dont want to risk a military confrontation or we roll the dice and deploy forces on Russia's borders which would be extremely provocative. There are no easy solutions. Maybe play rope a dope and hope Putin is assasinated by one of his many enemies.
 
No problem.....get the UN to declare a chapter 7
 
No problem.....get the UN to declare a chapter 7
Click to expand...

Can't you need the security council to do that and China and Russia have veto power.
 
stegner said:
The West said it was over.  The Russians never did.  They are sneaky that way.   
Click to expand...

This is a good one.  ;D

Let me remember something ..
The Cold War resulted in some good desarmement agreements between the East and the West

There was the ABM Treaty - broken by US
There was the CFE Treaty - never respected by NATO
There were promises to not expand NATO toward Russia - broken by NATO many times
There are actual calls in US Congress to denounce START I in 2009
Russia removed their bases in Vietnam, Cuba, Georgia - US installed bases in Uzbekistan, Kyrgizstan, Kosovo, Afganistan, ABM in Poland etc.

You are right
These Russians are so freakin sneaky ... they have really got NATO under control  >:D




 
So? Has Russia's incursion into Georgia moved the Pipeline closer to Russian 'control of oil' going to Europe; or is the pipeline going to take a more Southerly route to Turkey and keep Russia from controlling the flow of oil to Europe?
 
I have a question for you Flanker. How can we in the West avoid conflict with Russia ? How can we prevent anymore Georgia's or conflict in Eastern Europe ?
 
tomahawk6 said:
How can we prevent anymore Georgia's or conflict in Eastern Europe ?
Click to expand...
First it would be wise to relax a bit support of pro-western governments in Ukraine and Georgia.
Anticipating Western support, sometimes they become really inadequate.
 
George Wallace said:
So? Has Russia's incursion into Georgia moved the Pipeline closer to Russian 'control of oil' going to Europe; or is the pipeline going to take a more Southerly route to Turkey and keep Russia from controlling the flow of oil to Europe?
Click to expand...
Until now I have not seen any major change. I think even there will be more stability in the region.
And the pipeline cannot be moved to South because this would require it passes across the Iranian an Armenian territory.
The first is unacceptable for many Western coutries, the second is unacceptable for Azerbaijan.
 
Flanker said:
Until now I have not seen any major change. I think even there will be more stability in the region.
And the pipeline cannot be moved to South because this would require it passes across the Iranian an Armenian territory.
The first is unacceptable for many Western coutries, the second is unacceptable for Azerbaijan.
Click to expand...


???

Georgia is to the North and West of Azerbaijan.  Iran is to the South.  I can see a Southern route possibly being through Armenia (West of Azerbaijan), but there is no need; and there is definitely no need to go through Iran.  Now, Russia to the North is a whole different story.  Who is going to control the oil from Azerbaijan and the Caspian Sea?  Russia?


Azerbaijan shares all the formidable problems of the former Soviet republics in making the transition from a command to a market economy, but its considerable energy resources brighten its long-term prospects. Baku has only recently begun making progress on economic reform, and old economic ties and structures are slowly being replaced. Several other obstacles impede Azerbaijan's economic progress: the need for stepped up foreign investment in the non-energy sector, the continuing conflict with Armenia over the Nagorno-Karabakh region, pervasive corruption, and elevated inflation. Trade with Russia and the other former Soviet republics is declining in importance, while trade is building with Turkey and the nations of Europe. Long-term prospects will depend on world oil prices, the location of new oil and gas pipelines in the region, and Azerbaijan's ability to manage its energy wealth.
Click to expand...
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/aj.html#Econ   

 
What else is going on in that Region?

GEORGIA
Economy - overview:
Georgia has overcome the chronic energy shortages of the past by renovating hydropower plants and by bringing newly available natural gas supplies from Azerbaijan. It also has an increased ability to pay for more expensive gas imports from Russia. The country is pinning its hopes for long-term growth on a determined effort to reduce regulation, taxes and corruption in order to attract foreign investment. The construction on the Baku-T'bilisi-Ceyhan oil pipeline, the Baku-T'bilisi-Erzerum gas pipeline, and the Kars-Akhalkalaki Railroad are part of a strategy to capitalize on Georgia's strategic location between Europe and Asia and develop its role as a transit point for gas, oil and other goods.
Click to expand...
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/gg.html 

ARMENIA
Economy - overview:
Since the breakup of the Soviet Union in 1991, Armenia has made progress in implementing many economic reforms including privatization, price reforms, and prudent fiscal policies. The conflict with Azerbaijan over the ethnic Armenian-dominated region of Nagorno-Karabakh contributed to a severe economic decline in the early 1990s.
Click to expand...
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/am.html

TURKEY
Economy - overview:
Oil began to flow through the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline in May 2006, marking a major milestone that will bring up to 1 million barrels per day from the Caspian to market.
Click to expand...
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/tu.html   

So?  Does Russia want to divert this flow?  If they do they can 'shut off the taps' whenever they please and have a 'strangle hold' on Europe.

 
 
A point of interest on 22 Aug, the Russians and Armenians had a joint military exercise. It is expected that the US Coast Guard cutter Dallas and the command and control USS Mount Whitney will dock in Poti Wednesday to offload humanitarian aid. The Russians continue to occupy the harbor so conflict is a possibility.
 
George Wallace said:
I can see a Southern route possibly being through Armenia (West of Azerbaijan)
Click to expand...

AFAIK Armenia is not an option. Azerbaijan is concerned by the unresolved conflict with Armenia in the Karabakh region and "de jure" Azerbaijan is still in state of war with Armenia.
As for Russia, it is impossible that Russia would try to conquer/occupy the whole Georgia by military ways and there have been no plans for this.
There would be too many negative consequences in long term.
It is just not feasible without some kind of population support.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top