Georgia and the Russian invasions/annexations/Lebensraum (2008 & 2015)
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Haggis
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oligarch said:
It took me, like, 30 seconds to find out why you've received a warning here. You seem to put considerable effort into pleading your case on behalf of Russia but little on behalf of yourself. Try it!
oligarch said:
Can Russia be trusted? According to CBC News, Russia is not being as forthright and cooperative as you would like us to believe
"Also on Wednesday, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said his country's "peacekeepers" will remain in South Ossetia, an apparent violation of the ceasefire terms."
JackD said:
The answers to all those questions are "yes", except for them being paid by the UN, I am not certain who they are paid by. They are there on a UN mandate and on the mandate from a trilateral agreement between Russia, Georgia, and South Ossetia. A peacekeeping force of Ossetians, Russians, and Georgians was established. On November 6, 1992, the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) set up a Mission in Georgia to monitor the peacekeeping operation. They were neutral and measured for 16 years untill the Georgian side attacked and killed 12 of them... or is it 15 I've lost count by now. It reflects badly upon the United Nations to you because you are terribly misinformed about the situation in Abkhazia and South Ossetia. It also reflects badly upon the United Nations
Vitaly Churkin, the Russian ambassador to the U.N., responds to the crisis in South Ossetia on CNN:
1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvFhb9RZjeU
2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ds4MO2RrN_c
3 PART 1) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMcC6wbgPTE
3 PART 2) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq39RVL1BGQ
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Snafu-Bar said:
I am surprised that oligarch hasn't commented on this. Perhaps (s)he only posts links, but never checks out other people's posted links.
That is why I personally don't take empty profiles as being credible.
George Wallace said:
I'll take the method employed by some on this forum and ask for proof. Just as you consider Russian media not to be credible, I consider the AP not to be credible.
They were neutral... to claim otherwise is just ludicrous. You say the Russian side has provoked this. Why? In order to return things to the status quo? Seems like an aweful waste of resources.
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As i have said earlier in this thread one's opinion is reflected in one's political or social outlook, not everyone will agree with everything.
As i have also stated there are thruths and lies on BOTH sides of this, however the fact innocent people are trapped in the middle is making fodder of who is doing what to whom and why at this point.
Unless all sides are willing to sit together at a table and find a resolution, there will be nothing left to fight over but potholes and dirt.
Cheers.
As i have also stated there are thruths and lies on BOTH sides of this, however the fact innocent people are trapped in the middle is making fodder of who is doing what to whom and why at this point.
Unless all sides are willing to sit together at a table and find a resolution, there will be nothing left to fight over but potholes and dirt.
Cheers.
Haggis
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oligarch said:
Circular argument. This will get us nowhere.
It would seem that you expect, no, DEMAND that we take the word of the Russian media at face value but you refuse to accept, for example, that the AP's verison may be accurate as well. Why is that.
I now return this thread to it's ongoing curcular argument.
(Edited to keep it civil.)
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7557049.stm
An interesting analysis piece over at BBC. One of the regulars earlier was saying that there was a good chance that this was about energy supplies. (Natural Gas mainly, I think)
An interesting analysis piece over at BBC. One of the regulars earlier was saying that there was a good chance that this was about energy supplies. (Natural Gas mainly, I think)
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wolfshadow said:
Watching Glenn Beck last night and he was pretty convincing thats ALL this is about......controlling the pipeline.
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So do the regluars here think that this boosts or harms Ukraine's chances of getting into NATO? My best friend and I had quite the discussion over this last night.
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What of the Georgian peacekeepers there? The Ossetian peacekeepers there?meni0n said:
All three parties had interests in the region (as is painfully apparent now). The OSCE monitored the peacekeeping operations there. There have in the past been some conflicts, actions, incidents and so forth, but until the Georgian incursion into South Ossetia, things have been relatively quiet.
meni0n
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From UNSC:
On 1 August, at about 8 a.m. Tbilisi time, a
pickup vehicle containing six Georgian police officers
was hit by two remote-control explosive devices. As a
result of that attack, five Georgian policemen were
severely wounded. The central authorities decided not
to retaliate, so as not to escalate the situation.
On 2 August, six civilians and one Georgian
policeman were injured during the overnight shelling
of seven Georgian villages in the South Ossetian
conflict zone. The seven Georgian-controlled villages
came under intense fire from South Ossetian separatists
using large-calibre mortars. Georgian law-enforcement
personnel fired back defensively for some time but
then received a ceasefire order aimed at not escalating
the situation.
Late on 6 August, separatists opened fire with
mortars on Georgian-populated villages: Eredvi and
four others. Georgian Government forces fired back to
defend the civilian population. As a result of intense
crossfire during the night, two servicemen belonging to
the Georgian battalion of the Joint Peacekeeping
Forces were injured.
Overnight and in the early-morning hours of
7 August, intensive fire came from four positions in
various Ossetian villages. The separatist authorities
continued firing on Georgian law-enforcement
personnel and peacekeeping units with mortars and
artillery. The central authorities responded with limited
fire in order to defend those positions.
You can find collaborating information in plenty of sources. This is anything but quiet.
On 1 August, at about 8 a.m. Tbilisi time, a
pickup vehicle containing six Georgian police officers
was hit by two remote-control explosive devices. As a
result of that attack, five Georgian policemen were
severely wounded. The central authorities decided not
to retaliate, so as not to escalate the situation.
On 2 August, six civilians and one Georgian
policeman were injured during the overnight shelling
of seven Georgian villages in the South Ossetian
conflict zone. The seven Georgian-controlled villages
came under intense fire from South Ossetian separatists
using large-calibre mortars. Georgian law-enforcement
personnel fired back defensively for some time but
then received a ceasefire order aimed at not escalating
the situation.
Late on 6 August, separatists opened fire with
mortars on Georgian-populated villages: Eredvi and
four others. Georgian Government forces fired back to
defend the civilian population. As a result of intense
crossfire during the night, two servicemen belonging to
the Georgian battalion of the Joint Peacekeeping
Forces were injured.
Overnight and in the early-morning hours of
7 August, intensive fire came from four positions in
various Ossetian villages. The separatist authorities
continued firing on Georgian law-enforcement
personnel and peacekeeping units with mortars and
artillery. The central authorities responded with limited
fire in order to defend those positions.
You can find collaborating information in plenty of sources. This is anything but quiet.
Blackadder1916
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meni0n said:
Do you have a link to this "quote"? While there may be many sources "collaborating" with one side or the other, most viewing this thread would prefer "corroborating" information.
meni0n
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Link to the transcript is http://daccess-ods.un.org/access.nsf/Get?Open&DS=S/PV.5951&Lang=E .
For collaborating information, I have posted articles from CFR.org and Jamestown that have the same information of provocation by Russia. There are several Europe based publications that also repoted this, you can click on the URL Rock has pasted last page to read for yourself.
For collaborating information, I have posted articles from CFR.org and Jamestown that have the same information of provocation by Russia. There are several Europe based publications that also repoted this, you can click on the URL Rock has pasted last page to read for yourself.
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Is it me or the russian soldiers I've seen so far in this conflict are completely different than the image that the russian government had been conveying previously. Where's the professionnal and uniform army I've see in commercials and other medias. So far I've seen a pretty ragtag bunch.
Haggis
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The incongruous said:
Careful, now. Our troops in Afghanistan bear little resemblance to those well dressed, uniform and clean troops in the recruiting ads. Does that mean we're unprofessional, too?
don't just slag the Russians. Check out the phots of the Georgians, too. Uniforms of old and new(er) US Army temperate BDUs and USMC MARPAT. Weapons of M4's, AK74's, AK47's M16's. While I was there, I personally saw at least five different field uniforms of varying American vintage, both temperate and arid pattern on a daily basis.
(Edited because my spelling sucks when the sun goes down.)