Gen. Hillier pushes plan to boost army enrolment

[Scoobie Newbie]

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20060225/army_enrolment_060225

CTV.ca News Staff

In a bid to boost enrolment in the military, Canada's top soldier is promoting a plan to grant citizenship to landed immigrants who sign up to serve.

General Rick Hillier, the chief of defence staff, also wants to make the military more attractive by offering an extra week of leave for soldiers who sign up a new recruit.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper was elected on a platform that pledged to boost the military by as many as 23,000 new soldiers.

One of the big challenges with that plan is finding the manpower, but Hillier says his ideas could provide the incentive needed to bring in the new recruits.

Hillier said the military provides training, job security, exciting work and good pay, and said he is at a loss to explain why more Canadians don't want to serve



Don't the Americans allow landed immigrants to serve?

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote,
In a bid to boost enrolment in the military, Canada's top soldier is promoting a plan to grant citizenship to landed immigrants who sign up to serve.

See, its quite apparent that no one up in the towers reads the horror stories of potential recruits, waiting anywhere from one to 4 years for a security check, that adorn our website.
Just how long would the security check take for a "landed immigrant"?

 

[fleeingjam]

Does this mean CFRC will finally put PRes back onto the todo list rather than shelving it for another 2 months? or does he mean 23,000 Reg F personnel?

 

[darmil]

In the states, landed immigrants who serve get citizenship.

 

[Gunner]

In the states, landed immigrants who serve get citizenship.

Starship Troopers ... service gives citizenship?  Why doesn't the CDS just fix the bureaucratic monstrosity that we have created.

 

[Kirkhill]

Historically the army took criminals, kitted them out, organized them, disciplined them, put them under command and then hid them from public view.  The only people that had contact, ie communication with the public , were officers.

For a bunch of very good reasons this is no longer the case but.....

Currently the public can communicate with all soldiers regardless of rank, the soldiers are carrying more operational responsibility (the strategic corporal, becoming the strategic private),  "discipline" is looser relying to a greater extent on self-discipline.

The point of this comparison is that in the past the army took all-comers and did what it could with the tools at hand and created a useful force.  Currently, because of higher expectations the selection process seems to require only troops that in other armies would be considered pretty elite.  This has resulted in a very high quality but high "maintenance" (in the sense that my son and daughter are high maintenance) army.

Without resorting to recruiting criminals and employing the crucifixion (Field Punishment Number 1), the lash and the noose, is it possible to move the balance a little so as to restrict the "liberties" of the Pvt/Cpls that are newly joined and learning their trade and put more control in the hands of their Team and Section Leaders?  Would this make it possible to relax the recruiting standards (not the training standards - training would require more effort with "less qualified" recruits) and increase the numbers being accepted?

For example on physical fitness, rather than setting a standard and having people cut off because of lack of ability to meet the standard assess people on their potential to meet the standard and then train them to achieve the standard.  My understanding of the recruiting program in the two world wars was that any warm bodies were accepted and then the system knocked them into shape during their basic training - most of which was about deportment, rules and regs and physical conditioning.

With money to invest in training, with increases in discipline and control, is it possible to reduce the standard required of the recruit in order to increase the number of willing recruits that are being accepted?

 

[Dirt Digger]

General Rick Hillier, the chief of defence staff, also wants to make the military more attractive by offering an extra week of leave for soldiers who sign up a new recruit.

Is this per year, or a one shot deal?

If I manage to press-gang 48 young and immpressionable lads into uniform, will I never have to show up for work again?  ;D

 

[big bad john]

There has been a similar program with one weeks leave per recruit in the UK for a few years now and it has been successful.  It has only operated sporadically though.

 

[MikeL]

Landed immigrants who have their green card an join the US Army, but they are restricted to what they can do, since they can't get secruity clearances. Serving in the military helps speed up the process to get citizenship(if thats what you want), I believe serving in a combat theatre automatically qualifies you for citizenship aswell.

 

[chanman]

Quote,
In a bid to boost enrolment in the military, Canada's top soldier is promoting a plan to grant citizenship to landed immigrants who sign up to serve.

See, its quite apparent that no one up in the towers reads the horror stories of potential recruits, waiting anywhere from one to 4 years for a security check, that adorn our website.
Just how long would the security check take for a "landed immigrant"?

Citizenship and Immigration Canada's list of how to become a citizen gives a residency requirement of 3 out of the previous 4 years.  If it's taking that long for recruits to get in, a landed immigrant applicant might qualify for citizenship before they get processed http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/citizen/becoming-howto.html

 

[George Wallace]

Without resorting to recruiting criminals and employing the crucifixion (Field Punishment Number 1), the lash and the noose, is it possible to move the balance a little so as to restrict the "liberties" of the Pvt/Cpls that are newly joined and learning their trade and put more control in the hands of their Team and Section Leaders?  Would this make it possible to relax the recruiting standards (not the training standards - training would require more effort with "less qualified" recruits) and increase the numbers being accepted?

For example on physical fitness, rather than setting a standard and having people cut off because of lack of ability to meet the standard assess people on their potential to meet the standard and then train them to achieve the standard.  My understanding of the recruiting program in the two world wars was that any warm bodies were accepted and then the system knocked them into shape during their basic training - most of which was about deportment, rules and regs and physical conditioning.

As I read this, I muse over the campaign suggestion of creating a Northern Base.  There you would send all these new Recruits that you are suggesting and put them through all their training in an isolated location, for a period of two or three years before sending them back to locations close to 'society' again.  You would be subtly restricting their liberties and leave them not much choice but to concentrate on their 'Training' and Career Development. 

Just an evil thought after reading your post.  ;D

 

[Donut]

Aren't we always trying to encourage immigrants to settle outside of the big urban centers?  You don't get much better then Iqaluit to satisfy that criteria!

DF

 

[Bobert]

This is a good idea, though we also have to allow more immigrants into this country. For one thing in five years the first round of baby boomers will be retiring, which will put a heavy burden on the younger generation. Also alot of jobs will be availbe which will put the CF in a greater competion with the private sector. Offcourse, there will be certain things landed immigrants can't do as in the U.S. as a result of security clearences. Such become an Officer, MP, Intelligence etc.

 

[Kirkhill]

Just an evil thought after reading your post. 

George:  My wandering mind hadn't wandered that far.....but.....

 

[Love793]

Speeding up and stream-lining the medical process, would add more recruits than aiding with them gaining their citizenship.  Also, it would probably help a little, if we spent some money on advertising.  Especially on the 'toon side of the house.

 

[GDawg]

My phone at work is probably going to explode now!
I don't like how this hit the main stream media before I heard anything about it through the either Comm Res HQ or CFRG.
If I hadn't read this here I'd be spending a considerable amount of time telling potential applicants they are crazy or just plain wrong.
I suspect all this will mean for me is another massive batch of stale files waiting eons for PSCQs to clear.

 

[Rfn]

You know, I think Gen. Hillier was just the kind of shot in the arm the CF needed, someone that isn't afraid to think outside the box and bring the organization into the 21st century.

But I think he may be falling victim to flippant ideas and gimmickry. This sounds like some sort of PR strategy, engineered for public shock effect:

I don't like how this hit the main stream media before I heard anything about it through the either Comm Res HQ or CFRG.

CFRC didn't even know until it hit the News! I wonder if thats an indication of how well thought out and researched this was.
Most CF members realize the troop shortfall is due to delays in the recruitment process, fixing this should be a priority rather than making new problems with radical solutions.

 

[GDawg]

But I think he may be falling victim to flippant ideas and gimmickry. This sounds like some sort of PR strategy, engineered for public shock effect: 
CFRC didn't even know until it hit the News! I wonder if thats an indication of how well thought out and researched this was.

I'm not saying CFRG didn't know, I'm saying this is the first I've heard of it. I'm sure the details will filter through to the rest of us soon enough.

 

[MdB]

It does not add to the complexity of the recruiting problem. It adds other workable options. It's true enough that landed immigrants will have endless pre-security clearance, which in turn would discourage them from joining. The other option is present in the UK military with 500£ when a recruit is brought up by a military member. It's good and will encourage spreading the word from the CF's basic resource, military people.

Still, it's just sidetrack solutions in my mind.

Strealining the process and putting out there more ads (and more interesting ones) are the bulk of it. This way, people will know better about the Forces and won't be hired by another company because it lagged somewhere/somehow during the recruiting process. If the recruiting personnel would show interest (obvious interest) in recruiting the guy/gal in front of them (I speak for myself only), it'd be rather like a private company who seek the best. Because, after all, the CF are in competition with all companies out there and need as bad as them these candidates.

 

[Rfn]

Also, isn't there a historical parallel to this? I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Romans adopted a program in which they accepted non-Roman citizens into the army to help fill out the ranks of their legions. Because the life of the legionnaire was tough and was spent mostly on the dangerous frontiers of the Empire, an army career was less and less attractive to citizens and the strength of the legions' were increasingly foreign, usually Germanic tribes.

This worked very good for a while, fewer Romans were burdened with military service, and less advanced tribes living inside and outside the Roman empire secured employment that they were happy to have.

This was one of the factors that eventually led to the end of the empire. When the army started to identify more and more with the strong, brave, noble and clean living barbarian peoples hungrily lurking in the dark forests outside the frontier and less with the decadent, corrupt, effete and soft city-dwelling citizens, the Roman empire was in serious trouble.

If someone is more knowledgable about this, please leave a comment...

Point being, it's sometimes dangerous to get somebody else to fight your battles.