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G8/G20 June 2010 Protest Watch

Fishbone Jones

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Wonderbread said:
Those orange barrels mark the edge of the traffic control zone (Ref: the map I linked in my previous post), showing that they were well outside of the main protest area and nowhere even close to the 5 meter zone around the fence where the police had expanded powers to search people.

So, I ask again, are police allowed to lie to people in order to get the consent they need in order to conduct a search?

After all these pages and opinions you still think you're going to get the answer you want? Every attempt to placate and resolve has gone unheeded by you. I think it might be time to move on. You'll probably get the answer that you really aspire to getting over at Anarchy.com or some such.

Personally, I don't care that some buttmunch that instigated trouble for the spotlight, found it. The trouble with society, as I see it, is that there are not enough douchenozzles taking a regular shot to the hairy sack for making life miserable for the rest of us.

There's bad people and bad cops. Fact of life. Learn to live with it or spend the rest of your life in a padded room making baskets.

Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid.

Just my  :2c:
 

Container

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What lie is in the video? You cant go through here unless I make sure you arent carrying a weapon. No? Then have a nice day in that direction. No lie required. If you are refering to the Toronto chief I dont have anything for you. The police were perform access control to that area of the city. I dont know why- and neither do you. Their reg numbers are right there in the video- demand an investigation instead of being like the other people on the news and just talk about it nonstop but dont actually do anything about it. The reason? Because if a formal complaint is launched and investigated a reason will come forward why it was shut down  and the ******* cop will get an attiude talk. But you STILL wont agree, even when shown to be legal, because you'll then create a new claim that the investigation is biased and the sky is falling.

Orange barrels or not. The police are allowed to shut down part of town due to unlawful assemblies. Thats reality. They then slowly let life go back to normal. You have the freedom of movement. You do not have the freedom to go whereever you damn well please under any circumstances you so desire when there are people burning police cars, obstructing everyday people, damaging property, and trying to disrupt govenment meetings.

I recall the police shutting down Whyte Ave after oilers games a few years ago. I can close a beach. I can ground an air plane, and I can pull over you car. And if the peace is about to be breached I can arrest everyone in the street.

No. The police cant lie to you to get consent. That nulifies the idea of informed consent. But guess what- there are times you cant go places without proving you arent a bad guy. If a cop searches you and you feel violated. File a complaint- then  if it turns out that you were wronged collect your big cash reward. But dont post it on youtube and use it as proof of one world government when you cant even be bothered to make a few calls about why it happened.

Anyways- I wont be back in this thread unless a news story comes out and I need to apologize for giving the benefit of the doubt to the police. I know what it like to have a jug of piss thrown on you by a peaceful protestor. Until TPS throws jugs of piss back they get a little extra credibility.

Anyways Wonderbread- your older posts were well put together. So I dont think its a matter of you being a antiestablishment or whatever. Maybe you and I call truce until we see the reports that come out? Then I can beer you and provide an apology should it be required?
 

PuckChaser

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Container said:
No. The police cant lie to you to get consent. That nulifies the idea of informed consent. But guess what- there are times you cant go places without proving you arent a bad guy. If a cop searches you and you feel violated. File a complaint- then  if it turns out that you were wronged collect your big cash reward. But dont post it on youtube and use it as proof of one world government when you cant even be bothered to make a few calls about why it happened.

I completely agree here. But the individuals don't trust any government system unless its the one providing their free health care, or their subsidized post secondary education, so they won't file the complaint.
 

Fusaki

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recceguy said:
After all these pages and opinions you still think you're going to get the answer you want? Every attempt to placate and resolve has gone unheeded by you. I think it might be time to move on. You'll probably get the answer that you really aspire to getting over at Anarchy.com or some such.

Well, I think we agree on one point: minds have been made up and it is time for me to move on.

What you're wrong about is that I'd have to go to anarchy.com to get the answers I want to hear.  While it might seem like I'm "the only one in step" in this very small community, I think most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular - are cognizant of the violation of Canadian values by the police and government administration responsible for security at the G20.

Given that, I'm going to step away from this thread and wait for it all to come out in the wash.
 

Bruce Monkhouse

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Wonderbread said:
, I think most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular - are cognizant of the violation of Canadian values by the police and government administration responsible for security at the G20.

I guess we just hang out with different sorts then because just about 100% of the folks I know [not just on here] are quite happy with the handling of the whole situation..............................and, personally I'm not one of them.

It was nowhere near heavy-handed enough for my taste.
 

George Wallace

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Wonderbread said:
............. I think most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular - are cognizant of the violation of Canadian values by the police and government administration responsible for security at the G20.

I disagree.  I would say that most Canadians, in particular many Torontonians, are NOT cognizant at all as to what "Security" is, nor what measures must be taken daily to protect their 'Human Rights'.  They are for the most part very ignorant of these matters, and being in a normal state of blissful apathy do not question until such time as they perceive an injustice.  Usually the injustice that they perceive is not an injustice at all, but an ignorance of the Law. 
 

Journeyman

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....and besides, Starbucks had it coming to them.......dude.  ::)
 

Fusaki

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And if you're not with us, you're obviously an anarchist!  ::)
 

Sapplicant

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Anytime I go to NHL games, CFL games, outdoor concerts like rush/iron maiden at Bluesfest, I have had my bags searched. Do I see this as infringing on my rights? Hell no. Does everyone get searched? Hell yes. Does anyone raise a fuss? No, they generally don't unless they have something to hide. They'd rather get in.

At the g8/g20, when Canada's in the limelight, hosting the world's most prominent leaders and there's a risk some people might try to bring harm to them, or other people, it's suddenly against our rights and freedoms to have your bags searched if you want to "get in"? Seriously? Why would you give 3 and a half ****s unless you actually had something to hide, or were operating on an "agenda" of sorts?

Call me crazy, but does this seem a little.... odd?


As for the guy being "abused"...
Try crapping in a cop's cornflakes, then running away (evading arrest).
That's what happens man, that's what happens.
 

Journeyman

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Wonderbread said:
And if you're not with us, you're obviously an anarchist!  ::)
Well, if you're going to appoint yourself as spokesman for what "most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular" think, I suggest you get comfortable with tarrings by large brushes.

It's much like listening to one person go on.... and on........ and on.......... about the lying, evil, conspiratorial nature of the Toronto Police Service, notwithstanding Container acknowledging that the one particular cop in the video was being a dick.

I can only assume you believe such broad generalizations are only fair when being wielded by you. I therefore apologize with all due sarcasm for misunderstanding the rules.


Please treat this as rhetorical; there are no grounds for debate here, since you obviously speak on my behalf.  ::)
 

2 Cdo

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Journeyman said:
Well, if you're going to appoint yourself as spokesman for what "most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular" think, I suggest you get comfortable with tarrings by large brushes.

It's much like listening to one person go on.... and on........ and on.......... about the lying, evil, conspiratorial nature of the Toronto Police Service, notwithstanding Container acknowledging that the one particular cop in the video was being a dick.

I can only assume you believe such broad generalizations are only fair when being wielded by you. I therefore apologize with all due sarcasm for misunderstanding the rules.


Please treat this as rhetorical; there are no grounds for debate here, since you obviously speak on my behalf.  ::)

Well said!  :salute:

I love when lefties try to claim a voice for all Canadians. ::)
 

Jarnhamar

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Sapplicant said:
Seriously? Why would you give 3 and a half ****s unless you actually had something to hide, or were operating on an "agenda" of sorts?

Call me crazy, but does this seem a little.... odd?
I live in an area absolutely ripe with smugglers. People alcohol guns cigarettes.  Just because I don't want some cop searching my shit doesn't mean I have anything to hide.


The cops misled the public, they can deal with the backlash.  The string of savage beatings popping up in the news by various law enforcment probably isn't aiding their image either.
 

Fusaki

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Journeyman said:
Well, if you're going to appoint yourself as spokesman for what "most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular" think, I suggest you get comfortable with tarrings by large brushes.

All you've done is deliberately misinterpreted one line of my post and attacked it as if that were my actual position.  Anything to avoid dealing with the meat of my argument, eh?

The fact that you're throwing up a straw man only strengthens my case.  It makes it obvious that you can't appeal to reason, but you have to say something in order to avoid dealing with the uncomfortable idea that you may actually be wrong.
 

Journeyman

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Wonderbread said:
It makes it obvious that you can't appeal to reason.....
OK, since Googling "rhetorical" seems beyond you, I'll just spell it out:

- You do not speak for me or my beliefs.

- The legal SME explained the laws regarding "unlawful assembly" -- repeatedly, using small words.

- The guy with the bag, who you deem faultless, had the option of taking a different route.

- Taking a different route would not support his obvious agenda [attract support of like-minded anti-authority people].

- You have demonstrated repeatedly here that your mind (including apparently "most Canadians - and most Torontonians in particular" in your world) is made up, and everyone else is wrong.


As such, there is no reason upon which to base an appeal
 

Scott

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Wonderbread said:
Given that, I'm going to step away from this thread and wait for it all to come out in the wash.

Dude, walk away. Seriously.
 

Sapplicant

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Grimaldus said:
  The string of savage beatings popping up in the news by various law enforcement probably isn't aiding their image either.

To be fair, savage beatings at the hands of LEO's is nothing new. From my perspective, what went on at the g20 was pretty tame as far as police brutality goes.

I understand your issues with having police go through your stuff, but your neighbourhood and the "secure zone" are 2 different things. Privacy of your home, and when walking down a normal street on a normal day, are almost assumed. This, however, was not a normal day, or street.
 

Container

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Grimaldus said:
I live in an area absolutely ripe with smugglers. People alcohol guns cigarettes.  Just because I don't want some cop searching my crap doesn't mean I have anything to hide.


The cops misled the public, they can deal with the backlash.  The string of savage beatings popping up in the news by various law enforcment probably isn't aiding their image either.

As an aside- youd be crazy to be okay with anyone having the power to look at anything you have just because you are outside. I cant imagine a cop being okay with being able to do that either- well not one that should be working in Canada. But my long standing rule is that should a cop do anything weird to me Ill look into it after. Should I run in to a wing ding I dont want it to be anyworse than it is already.

As for the one massive beating in the news right now, the mountie from Alberta, I watched the video and he should a)lose his job and b) get a massive penalty from the court. He went on to blatantly lie in his notes and reports. THEN the force should sue him for the damage he did to their image!

THEN the guy standing around should lose his job. So should the guard.

I'll give you an example- I was in a small town in where we live next to the detachment. A guy told someone that in the morning when he got he was going to walk over to the house and rape a wife(in a very matter of fact way). He then punched one cop in the face. It was on. He lost and before the cop that he had wronged so large could cross the line we seperated them. When somebody loses their shit thats whats supposed to happen.

Im familiar with the places that the Cst. from the video policed and it is totally believable that he has some left over issues. However- he chose not to get help and beat people and lie about it. Give him the worst we can and then stick his picture on the gate going in to the police colleges.
 

Container

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Wonderbread-Here is a new story about Blair having to try and take back his words AGAIN.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2010/12/03/toronto-chief-123.html

One just wishes he would shut up and let the investigations speak for themselves. It is quite the embarrassment for him to keep shooting from the hip and having to take things back. It doesnt change the video or the interpretation. It just again detracts from the strength of Blair's words. It would be inappropriate for me to call for him to resign but he doesnt seem like he is doing TPS any favours with his current style.

As a side note- you understand that it is inappropriate for SIU to say that someone probably used excessive force. Or that they are probably guilty. To demonstrate why this is dumb reverse it- if I investigated you for assaulting someone but I cant meet the threshold to lay a charge would it be appropriate for me to do a news release saying that you were probably guilty? Its amateurish and is absolutely against the rights of everyone involved. I would suggest that its a dangerous erosion.

The investigation needs to be completed. charges to be laid if warranted- both criminal or police act and the results of those investigations need to aired in public. Blair needs to shut up, and so does SIU.
 
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