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Journeyman said:
No. There were a few segregated (black) tank battalions that it to Europe. Wilt Chamberlain had written a book about his Dad, who served in one of those Battalions.
"Fury" WW2-era tank movie remake stars Brad Pitt, Shia Lebeouf
- Thread starter CougarKing
- Start date
No. There were a few segregated (black) tank battalions that it to Europe. Wilt Chamberlain had written a book about his Dad, who served in one of those Battalions.
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This is an "Easy 8". It had a 76mm gun, and was capable of destroying a Pz VI E ("Tiger"), from the front at normal ranges. It was rather vulnerable to the Tiger at longer ranges, however. I'm guessing that "Fury" is an Easy 8.
Other M4A1 shermans had 76mm guns as well:
As stated previously, the Sherman's advantage over the Tiger was its mobility. The Tiger's advantage was its firepower and protection.
And though WoT is awesome to play (just finished a round with my Tiger, by the way ;D), to truly gain the experience of how to use US Armor (sic) in the war, play Flames of War.
It's best to bait the Tigers with your shermans, and then unleash a stream of fire from your Tank Destroyers that have crept into position. It truly takes a combined arms effort to do them in.
I doubt that this movie will show that, but I'm probably going to go see it. Because tanks!
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Brihard said:
Those that can, do.
Those that can't, play World of Tanks.
As for Sherman's able to take out Tigers one on one, there was also the Sherman IC and VC variants that had the range and the armament. Bad part was the armour on the Sherman's. It was paper thin in comparison and crews were relegated to "shoot and scoot" tactics or outright ambushing them.
Regards
To oversimplify the issue, the Sherman was an outstanding tank in 1942, but its design was sealed circa 1943 to facilitate mass production. Thus, there were lots of tanks that did well at El Alamein available in Normandy facing tanks like the later production Panzer IVs and Panthers and even a few Tigers. (Only three Tiger battalions fought in Normandy - all against the British and Canadians - and most of these were lost to breakdowns and lack of fuel.)
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Old Sweat said:
Panzer ace Michael Wittman's Tiger was among them, right?
Nerf herder said:
After my book on Normandy, which included an appendix on Wittmann's death, appeared, I was contacted by a couple of German Panzer officers who were appalled at the adulation afforded Wittmann. They considered him a mediocre officer at best. I share their opinion, but the damage has been done.
NH is right in that the majority of his kills were anti-tank guns and even at Villers-Bocage, which was turned into a propaganda orgy by the Nazis, he only destroyed four gun tanks (three of which were parked and one of which was trying to sneak up on him) out of the total of umpteen AFVs credited to him. Incidentally all the legitimate kills by the other tanks of his company (approximately a squadron plus) were all credited to him by the commander of 1 SS Panzer Corps in his recommendation for the Knight's Cross with Swords.
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General Disorder said:
It is a great book, if you have not read it I highly recommend it. Amazon has it for a good price right now http://www.amazon.ca/Tigers-Mud-Otto-Carius/dp/0811729117/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404052274&sr=8-1&keywords=tigers+in+the+mud/ unfortunately not signed.
edit to fix link
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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The earlier Sherman's were not that noted for their crosscountry ability, the power to weight ratio and ground pressure was not great. Apparently the tiger 1 was a pleasure to drive and fairly reliable design. the Panther suffered greatly from it's final drive and was a total bitch to replace. hat design was improved upon but never completely. Not helped by French worker sabotage (Littlefields crew found cig butts in the drive they rebuilt) or by the material quality available to the Germans.
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Has anyone else here watched "Fury" yet? It should have been out in theatres here in Canada for the past 2-3 weeks already.
I liked "Fury", especially the Tiger vs. 4 Shermans scene.
I would have preferred though that US/Allied tank destroyers such as the M10 Wolverine/Achilles get more exposure in today's movies though, since I didn't see any in this movie, nor in the "Band of Brothers" series.
There were also a couple of M8 Greyhound Scout cars guarding the US outpost in another scene.
The recent TV movie "Saints and Soldiers: The Void" that came out this year is supposed to be set around the story of 2 US M18 Hellcat tank destroyer crews.
Trailer for the other movie:
"Saints and Soldiers: the Void"
I liked "Fury", especially the Tiger vs. 4 Shermans scene.
I would have preferred though that US/Allied tank destroyers such as the M10 Wolverine/Achilles get more exposure in today's movies though, since I didn't see any in this movie, nor in the "Band of Brothers" series.
There were also a couple of M8 Greyhound Scout cars guarding the US outpost in another scene.
The recent TV movie "Saints and Soldiers: The Void" that came out this year is supposed to be set around the story of 2 US M18 Hellcat tank destroyer crews.
Trailer for the other movie:
"Saints and Soldiers: the Void"
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I saw it and thought it was well done, especially the Sherman vs. Tiger scene that you mentioned. Of course we need to hear from one of our Tango call signs to hear what they thought. The part I am not sure about was the middle scene when they had lunch, that was just strange and threw me off (off course it was probably intended to).
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Saw "Fury" this afternoon with two friends with serious military history knowledge. Reaction: good machinery, much unrealistic action, much dead boring.
I would compare with the 1956 US Army movie "Attack", most unglorious for its time, which I saw age 9 and has stayed with me:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048966/
"Attack" deals with moral matters, of command in particular, that "Fury" briefly raises then runs from for more rounds fired. Intermittently until the end when a--very young--SS soldier actually saves Machine's life. But these moments give no cause for real reflection. As if they simply should be raised, don't you know--but more rounds, man. And mud and dirt. War is hell, don't you know.
Mark
Ottawa
I would compare with the 1956 US Army movie "Attack", most unglorious for its time, which I saw age 9 and has stayed with me:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0048966/
"Attack" deals with moral matters, of command in particular, that "Fury" briefly raises then runs from for more rounds fired. Intermittently until the end when a--very young--SS soldier actually saves Machine's life. But these moments give no cause for real reflection. As if they simply should be raised, don't you know--but more rounds, man. And mud and dirt. War is hell, don't you know.
Mark
Ottawa
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Having seen the movie and knowing a thing or two about both tanks, what happened in the film is entirely plausible.Old EO Tech said:Looks like a good movie....you will just have to ignore Hollywood making a Sherman into an awesome Tiger killing machine, when in fact only vast numbers of Shermans made them effective at all....but seeing 15 Shermans being destroyed for every Tiger doesn't make for an A list movie in the US
The Sherman that Wardaddy Collier commands is an M4A3E8, which was faster than the Tiger by far, better armoured than the earlier version of the Sherman (but not by much), had better ammo stowage ("Wet" ammo storage), which reduced catastrophic explosions due to fire by a significant amount, and had even the suspension was better than earlier versions. It also had stabilizers, allowing for more accurate fire on the move.
It was also armed with a 76mm High velocity cannon, with its HVAP rounds, able to deal with Tigers.
Colin Parkinson
Army.ca Myth
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Here is a excellent film on the cross country capabilities of tanks, had the Germans been able to solve the Final drive issues on the Panther it would have been a excellent tank.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmXEly5_u38
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SmXEly5_u38
