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France stepping to the plate in Afghanistan?

McG

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This could be good news:
France may send troops to southern Afghanistan
Updated Thu. Feb. 7 2008 8:49 PM ET
CTV.ca News Staff

Senior Canadian officials are headed to France to negotiate the details of a plan to augment Canadian troops with French soldiers in southern Afghanistan.

A contingent of government officials are heading to Paris to discuss whether French troops will be joining Canada in Afghanistan's dangerous southern region, sources in Ottawa told CTV News.

French Defence Minister Herve Morin said Thursday that France was considering sending an undetermined number of troops to join Canada in Kandahar.

Those troops were originally to be stationed in Kabul, but France was considering sending them south in order to meet demands Canada has made to its NATO allies for support in the dangerous area.

"I said we would help the Canadians," Morin said in French about a meeting with Defence Minister Peter MacKay in Vilnius, Lithuania.

He said French President Nicolas Sarkozy would announce any final decisions.

"This is not a surprise," Laurie Hawn, MacKay's parliamentary secretary told CTV's Mike Duffy Live. "We've been working behind the scenes and in front of the scenes for a long time and it appears that that's now bearing fruit."

The Prime Minister's Office would not confirm the report.

The Liberals said Canadians should be cynical about what appears to be a sudden influx of NATO troops. Liberal defence critic Denis Coderre suggested that the foreign troop additions were probably committed previously, but the Tories are using the news for optimum political advantage.

"I am not surprised (the Conservatives) are making those announcements because I think (the troops) were given already."

Meanwhile, MacKay was trying to convince his NATO counterparts to cough up the 1,000 additional troops recommended in the Manley report. He is taking part in bilateral meetings with other defence ministers in Vilnius, Lithuania.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper has said he wants to extend Canada's military commitment beyond the February 2009 deadline, but only if NATO countries contribute 1,000 extra troops -- the amount recommended in a recent report by John Manley.

While MacKay said he would prefer the 1,000 troops come from one country, he conceded on Thursday that the required troops may have to come from a patchwork of nations. Last year, when the Netherlands went looking for extra troops, it eventually had to settle for small numbers of troops from various countries.

Before the closed-door meetings began MacKay said he wouldn't mince words, telling reporters in Vilnius he would deliver the message that "Canada is in need of additional troop commitments in southern Afghanistan to augment troops we have there now."

CTV's Tom Kennedy, reporting from Vilnius, said such strong language is rare at such meetings.

"He was very blunt. He said this is not negotiable. And if Canada doesn't get this kind of commitment from NATO then it will walk out. What's interesting about this is it's very rare you see Canada at the centre of attention at meetings like this," Kennedy told CTV's Canada AM.

He said there was a lot of interest among other defence ministers as to what stance Canada would take on the issue.

"I think the Alliance realizes right now that the timing is critical. The threat from Canada is focusing the attention of the Alliance and something is going to have to be done," Kennedy said.

MacKay met with defence ministers from the U.K., Australia and Holland to sound out their positions.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, who is currently in Afghanistan, is also calling for additional troops to help in the volatile south.

The Liberals, who have been calling for an end to Canada's combat role in Afghanistan, said Harper has failed to realize the mission must change.

Liberal Leader Stephane Dion told the House of Commons that Harper wasn't being honest about his intentions in Afghanistan.

"He must be honest about his plan for a never-ending mission. He should also end the mismanagement and confusion," Dion said during question period on Thursday. "How can Canadians have any trust in this prime minister and his plan for a never-ending mission? The prime minister who controls everything, but runs nothing."

Harper, meanwhile, said NATO allies are aware of his government's intention to extend Canada's military mission, and that the time will come for all parties to decide their position.

"The choice is to do and, in fact, strengthen the military mission or to not do the military mission and abandon those commitments," Harper said. "On that fundamental question -- those two choices -- Canadians deserve the truth from every political party."

NATO Spokesperson James Appathurai, speaking from Vilnius, told Canada AM on Thursday that many Canadians are under a misconception that Canada, the U.S., U.K. and Holland are the only countries doing combat work in southern Afghanistan.

"I really wouldn't agree that only four countries are fighting," he said. "I think if you're Polish you wouldn't appreciate that. I think if you're Danish, Estonian, Romanian or Australian you wouldn't appreciate that because they're all fighting down in the south."

And France and Germany are among countries who have indicated they are willing to send troops to the south in an emergency situation, he said.

Appathurai said there are actually 11 countries involved in the south, and the total number of forces in the region has increased by 10,000 in the past year alone.

"Let's not give Canadians the impression there are only four countries fighting in the south. There are not," he said. "Can we get more support for the south? I think we all need to work for that. We want to see as NATO an alliance that has the minimum number of restrictions on where forces can be used."

On Wednesday, U.S. Defence Secretary Robert Gates told a Senate committee that international disagreements over Afghanistan threatened to make NATO a two-tier alliance, with some members risking lives on the front lines while others sit back.

With files from The Canadian Press
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080207/mackay_troops_080207/20080207?hub=TopStories
 
If France sends its additional troops to anywhere but the South will it make any difference?
 
I really wouldn't agree that only four countries are fighting," he said. "I think if you're Polish you wouldn't appreciate that. I think if you're Danish, Estonian, Romanian or Australian you wouldn't appreciate that because they're all fighting down in the south."

And France and Germany are among countries who have indicated they are willing to send troops to the south in an emergency situation, he said.

Appathurai said there are actually 11 countries involved in the south, and the total number of forces in the region has increased by 10,000 in the past year alone.

I disagree with NATO's talking head - "involved" hardly equals fighting.  Aside from the Danes (who seem to be capable of "doing business" in a variety of theatres) and the Aussie SF, I would hard pressed to describe any real combat operations undertaken by the other nine countries cited by NATO (or by the Dutch and Romanians for that matter).

NATO is loaded with flag-hoisters looking to cash in politically by "participating" in the mission.  A company or less of "combat" troops surged in for a very limited period hardly contributes to overall mission success.  I'll ask the question I've asked before:  when is a German, Italian, Spanish, Turkish or French battle group deploying to RC(S) to undertake sustained operations?  Oh yeah....  ::)

If the French actually reposition south, I'm actually quite confident that they'll be effective.  It is the political will France lacks.  As for the rest of the Eurotrash, I've stated my opinion often enough.



 
Thanks Teddy that's what I was implying.  You've stated it more eloquent then I.

Bubbles what makes you think that?
 
Quite simply, we've stepped up to a much bigger plate than most. Our NATO "allies" chose their well  planned seats at the table, to save face, not show force. If this does continue, or the heel dragging by our "allies" is prolonged then the membership in NATO that we should question isn't ours but that of France and Germany. BTW, kudos to Holland, Poland and the UK.
 
Lard of the dance

Gotta remember that we got into this pretty pickle because we were probably the last country to choose an Afghan province.  If we had been one of the 1st up to the place, then it might have been someone else asking Canada to put additional troops into the hot seat.

Between 1967 and 1995, Canada's contribution to NATO was a little bit on the thin side - to the embarassment of most members of our military.
 
Lone Wolf Quagmire said:
Bubbles what makes you think that?
1st line they hint to it.
Senior Canadian officials are headed to France to negotiate the details of a plan to augment Canadian troops with French soldiers in southern Afghanistan.

geo said:
Gotta remember that we got into this pretty pickle because we were probably the last country to choose an Afghan province.  If we had been one of the 1st up to the place, then it might have been someone else asking Canada to put additional troops into the hot seat.

One would like to believe you would be wrong geo, but I somehow doubt you are...
 
Soooo, an announcement to be made at the Bucharest Summit ???
It would seem that France will indeed be helping Canada, all that remains to be seen is, in what capacity?
http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=cbc047f6-7b67-43b8-9537-2c1b4623ba97
"I said that we would help Canada," Mr. Morin said, adding that French President Nicolas Sarkozy had "extraordinary relations" with Prime Minister Stephen Harper.

"And I indicated to him that all this must be done as part of a global reflection on the reorganization of NATO forces," Mr. Morin said.  "If I had a message to address to Canadian public opinion, it's to have a little bit of patiencesince late March is close to early April, and early April is the time of the Bucharest summit."

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/301691
"Give it a few more days and it necessarily wouldn't be a bad thing," Morin added.

http://www.canada.com/components/print.aspx?id=cbc047f6-7b67-43b8-9537-2c1b4623ba97
French Defence Minister Hervé Morin indicated after a meeting with Canadian Defence Minister Peter MacKay that France would come to Canada's assistance, although he played down reports that 700 paratroopers could be deployed to help the effort in Kandahar.

EDIT: I grabbed this from another thread.
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/70640.0.html
DavidAkin said:
The Afghanistan motion will be voted on at the end of March. It will be the third and final confidence vote of what will likely be at least three confidence votes in March.
Does anyone else see a correlation between these two time frames (announcement from France)?, or should I just wander off to the padded room?
 
Teddy Ruxpin said:
I disagree with NATO's talking head - "involved" hardly equals fighting.  Aside from the Danes (who seem to be capable of "doing business" in a variety of theatres) and the Aussie SF, I would hard pressed to describe any real combat operations undertaken by the other nine countries cited by NATO (or by the Dutch and Romanians for that matter).
Is this a joke? Maybe you need to inform yourself alittle better.
 
NFLD Sapper said:
Care to enlighten us then there empty profile poster?

He could of said it a little more eloquently, but I think he took issue with Mr. Ruxpin saying that the Dutch haven't been in any real combat operations, when they have been. For example the Battle of Chora
 
Not just Chora. Operation Spin Gahr was another combat operation and there have been several smaller scale operations in Uruzgan (mainly deh rawod district) as well. There is barely any international media coverage though, unless Dutch KIA are reported.
 
Eggy said:
Not just Chora. Operation Spin Gahr was another combat operation and there have been several smaller scale operations in Uruzgan (mainly deh rawod district) as well. There is barely any international media coverage though, unless Dutch KIA are reported.

Mostly that's what the media feeds onto these days.
 
People are sometimes too hard of the French.
They have a lot more international commitments than Canada does.
We have everything we can send in A-Stan, France doesnt.

That being said, I hope they send more troops, after all since they are French troops, they would get along great with the Quebecers. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
 
My opinion vis a vis the Dutch is based on my previous experience (in Afghanistan but not in RC(S)) and by multiple reports from those with first hand knowledge working with and for them when they had command in RC (S).  I have indirect (ie: second-hand) sources from another country operating in Uruzgan as well.  I'm quite well informed, thank you.  Don't like it?  Not much I can do...it's an opinion and only that.

As for the French, I'm quite sure the Paras or one of the FFL battalions would acquit themselves quite well.



 
I think one of the reasons behind asking the French to step up to the plate (from our point of view), would be to try to change Quebecer"s opinion on our contribution to the war in AFG. They are the most "against it" of Canadians, I think and to have the French joining in COULD change their opnion a bit.
Just a thought...
 
delavan said:
I think one of the reasons behind asking the French to step up to the plate (from our point of view), would be to try to change Quebecer"s opinion on our contribution to the war in AFG. They are the most "against it" of Canadians, I think and to have the French joining in COULD change their opnion a bit.
Just a thought...

I think you are really stretching it there and still not far enough to grasp the straws.  That is highly unlikely, in my eyes.
 
It is MY OPINION that the Dutch troops would do fine.  It is the contraints imposed on them by their government that doesn't allow their Apaches to break the 3000 ft ceiling for ground support (while the Americans get as low as required) and allowing their troops to operate much in RC south.
 
France to announce Afghanistan plan in April
Last Updated: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 | 6:12 PM ET  CBC News
Article Link

France will not announce a decision on whether to offer additional troops to help Canadian soldiers in southern Afghanistan until April, according to French diplomats.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy is expected to announce a decision on whether his country will send troops to southern Afghanistan in April.
(Francois Mori/Associated Press)
Daniel Jouanneau, France's ambassador to Ottawa, said French President Nicolas Sarkozy is considering a number of options and will announce his final decision at a NATO summit in Bucharest, scheduled for April 2-4.

Deploying French soldiers to southern Afghanistan's Kandahar region, where 2,500 Canadian troops are already stationed, is just one of a number of possibilities for the western European nation.
More on link
 
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